KLON tweaking? or how to unleash the beast

[half_smith]

I built a GGG Klon, it works.  I've tried some different diodes, that's been interesting.
Granted I'm playing through an old Polytone MiniBrute IV - no tubes to overdrive they all say in unison
- The MASTER PLAN involves eventually making a Champ or Hammond organ amp mod...someday, till then I just have this SS Poly...

I've been keeping it on all the time for clean warmth and breadth, but I don't think I'm getting the full Centaur vibe. Seems a little restrained.

What part of the circuit might I tweak to open it up even more? Or is the KLON circuit considered perfect?

Anyone have suggestions for getting a little more breakup at the top of the Gain knob (mine stays clean all the way up) and more treble would be good (I have the treble knob all the way up too).

Is it going to be determined by which diodes I use?
Will power source (just got a new pedalboard power brick) help?

Am I allowed to post the schematic?
It's available for download on ggg
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_kc_sc.pdf

My build is exactly as designed.

here are my voltages (GGG documentation reference #'s in [...])
I noticed they are consistent and in line with the GGG #'s, however just a bit low overall?

IC1

1	4.6v	[4.7v]	8	9.24v	[9.4v]
2	4.6v	[4.7v]	7	4.61v	[4.7v]
3	1.3v	[3.6v]	6	4.64v	[4.7v]
4	0v	[0v]	5	4.55v	[4.7v]

IC2

1	4.64v	[4.8v]	8	16.62v	[17.1v]
2	4.61v	[4.7v]	7	4.58v	[4.6v]
3	4.55v	[4.7v]	6	4.61v	[4.7v]
4	-8.79v	[-9.1v]	5	4.55v	[4.7v]

IC3

1	9.23v	[9.4v]	8	9.24v	[9.4v]
2	4.71v	[4.7v]	7	4.20v	[7.4v]
3	0v	[0v]	6	4.64v	[5v]
4	-4.32v	[-4.5v]	5	-8.54v	[-9.1v]

[FiveseveN]

Seems a little restrained [...] to open it up even more [...] a shot of steroids?

Can you rephrase your goal in terms of determinable properties of sound?

[half_smith]

FiveseveN, thanks I modified my post to clarify my goal

[Mixa]

You can reduce the value of the 2k resistor before the gain pot in order to get some more range (gain at the top), but what I found out is, the best way is to add a clean boost pedal before the Klon.
I also tried different diodes, but at the end went back to 1N34a's. I also liked the Mosfets, I used BS170 in combination with  D9E, that sounds good. However, diodes come into play only when the gain pot is increased quite a bit.
I also tried all kinds of opamps, and ended up with AD823 for the first opamp. A little more punch, little more clarity.

[Mark Hammer]

Personally, I would not recommend tweaking a Klon or clone of one.  It has no sound of its own to recommend it, the way most overdrive pedals do, and was never intended to do so.  It was developed in order to make a tube amp saturate in a desirable way by toneshaping the input signal fed to the amp.

Bill Finnegan contacted me in late 2007 for some assistance in seeing if something that some unspecified clients had requested could be extracted from the basic circuit.  I was surprised, stunned and honoured.  He sent me two ungooped boards, one of which had the same components, but every single one was socketed such that values could be "played with".  Staggering build quality.  In the end, I couldn't accomplish what was requested, I mailed back the boards, and we parted ways amicably.  I kept the "confidential business information" under my hat, and continue to, although in the intervening years clearly others have engaged in the detective work.

The "beast to unleash" is the amp itself.  I'm not saying a Klon clone could not be modified to bring out the best in a given amp.  But you have to know the amp, and have to understand how it responds when on the edge of breakup, so that you can get a handle on what to feed it.  Searching for a "Klon sound" that supercedes  the amp you might feed it to, in some readily identifiable way, strikes me as a waste of time and effort.

I don't know what Bill does now, but at the time, his practice was to engage the prospective customer in a 20-30 minute conversation about their rig and playing style.  If he felt the pedal would not add value to that assembly, he would recommend against purchase.  GGG is an honest site but you don't get "the talk" with it, and of course neither do any of those paying ridiculous resale prices on E-Bay.

[half_smith]

Mark, your replies are golden, thank you. That's amazing that Mr Finnegan reached out to you! What a LEGEND.

I know that I am hoping for some magic from the Klon eventhough I'm not even using a tube amp. I love the change in tone and slight break up I get from it -  makes my Poly sound warmer with more harmonics, and I use it to boost into my Mutron and Dist+

And I have a bunch of the parts socketed so I'm just looking for ways to tweak it and make it fit my rig more.

I've seen mention of lowering R10 (down from 2K) for more gain?
And early versions didn't have the R11 (15k on C7) (so maybe try without it)?

[KarenColumbo]

I'd build a nice saturated overdrive pedal, preferably with a couple of JFETs in it so you get "tubey" breakup and the soft pleasant clipping those transistors are loved for. Tune it up for early break-up. Then put your Klon before it, set the Gain knob to 3 o'clock, pump up the treble and hit your guitar nice and hard THAT's what it's about. The Klon's not about what comes BEFORE it, but AFTER it.

[iainpunk]

i never played a real Centaur, but a bunch of clones by other brands, IMHO, the best sound out of a Centaur is another one stacked. both with all knobs just above the center (i'd say half past one) is what i liked best. but that's just my oppinion.
any clean boost or even a ts-9 would do to boost a centaur in to medium to high gain.

and hit your guitar nice and hard THAT's what it's about.

yes, this is important too, hitting hard makes everything sound better. picking softly always sounds worse than aggressive pick on string violence

cheers

[Mark Hammer]

Mark, your replies are golden, thank you. That's amazing that Mr Finnegan reached out to you! What a LEGEND.

I know that I am hoping for some magic from the Klon eventhough I'm not even using a tube amp. I love the change in tone and slight break up I get from it -  makes my Poly sound warmer with more harmonics, and I use it to boost into my Mutron and Dist+

And I have a bunch of the parts socketed so I'm just looking for ways to tweak it and make it fit my rig more.

I've seen mention of lowering R10 (down from 2K) for more gain?
And early versions didn't have the R11 (15k on C7) (so maybe try without it)?

Thanks.
Though I have some nice old tweed amps, I do most of my building and testing on a Fender Champion 110 or recently-acquired Keith Urban amp.  Both are boilerplate solid-state amps with "overdrive" and clean channel settings, the one with a 10" speaker and the other with 8".  I am constantly surprised by the sorts of overdrives and pedal settings that make either amp sound much better than one might expect.  In some instances, a lot warmer.

The nice thing is that, if you have the DIY bug, and the parts and time, you can easily stumble into something that gives the same gift to your amp.  There's no real tried-and-true recipe that will work for every amp, but at the very least, you'll want something to trim back on the treble fed to the amp if you're trying to push it hard.

[Frank_NH]

As a BIG Klon fan and having built several clones (and my own tweaked version), I really like the Klon sound on its own.  It's one of the most amp-like overdrives I've used.  In fact, I have run the basic circuit on my breadboard with just a cab sim at the end (to add presence) into a clean solid-state power amp and it sounded great.

There are many modded Klon clones out there - perhaps one of the most versatile is the VFE Merman, with separate controls for clean and distortion.  Also, as KarenColumbo mentioned, you can build a dual effect with a Klon up front followed by another overdrive (like a Blues Breaker or Tube Screamer).  I've found the Klon-Tube Screamer combo to be particularly effective.

[half_smith]

One thing I hope y'all can look at for me, the GGG Schematic seems to match other KLON(e)s I've seen online, but the BOM and Wiring Diagrams include some parts that aren't even on their (GGG's) Schematic.

R3, C2, and R4 are not on the Schematic, but are included in the kit and appear on the Wiring Diagram,
Can anyone tell me what they are doing or whether I should omit them? Would I have to jumper them or just leave em out?