True Bypass looper question

[HH1978]

Hello,

I have a clone of the 16 second delay which bypass degrades the sound.

So I plan to build a true bypass looper for it, but since a part of the magic is the always listening function, I wonder if I could preserve it by jumpering the input and effect send together? I would of course omit the send to ground connection at the switch.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Yeah sure.  Why not?

How the parallel connection affects your tone depends on just about everything else, and we don't have anywhere near enough information about what happens around this to make meaningful predictions.  It could work, maybe even should, but there's no way to promise it will.

[iainpunk]

it does have a Direct Output? you should be able to switch between direct out and its normal output, with only a spdt switch.
the input impedance is only 150k, which is super low for modern pedals, i suspect tone suck even if you have the signal only touching the input, without passing through, but it can be remedied with a simple buffer.
you can still build this for general purpose tho.

cheers

[HH1978]

Thanks both for your replies!

The delay (which I should have said more precisely is a Manecco Sweet 16) doesn't have a direct output.

Do you mean the input impedance of the delay or the true bypass looper (pardon my ignorance)?

I'm currently building a G2 buffer I could use for this. I was thinking putting it earlier in the chain, between fuzz and OD, but what do you think would work the best?

My chain is : Fuzz face > Boost > OD > phaser > OD > chorus > Tremolo > analog delay > digital delay (Manecco Sweet 16) > boost > amp

I should also have described the issues I was experiencing with the delay's bypass :

1) with the end of chain boost off : weak signal, the treble sounds a bit gated, if that makes any sense.

2) with the boost on : the boost acts weird. With the boost knob at minimum, the gain is well above unity (it's unity gain normally). And the switch makes a popping sound when engaged or disengaged (it's silent when the Manecco is out of the chain).
The boost itself is a Spaceman Atlas.

[iainpunk]

Do you mean the input impedance of the delay or the true bypass looper (pardon my ignorance)?

its about the pedal's input impedance, its original EHX version has a resistor to ground 150k, only seperated by a cap that lets through almost all frequencies like an almost short.

I'm currently building a G2 buffer I could use for this.

nice.
as long as there is a good quality buffer in front of the 16 second delay you are probably alright, independent of where in the chain, as long as its in front of the delay.
the best place for a buffer is as early as possible, 9/10 people say after fuzz before the rest. the fuzz face behaves differently when there is a buffer in front, you might even like what it gives you.

I should also have described the issues I was experiencing with the delay's bypass :

1) with the end of chain boost off : weak signal, the treble sounds a bit gated, if that makes any sense.

2) with the boost on : the boost acts weird. With the boost knob at minimum, the gain is well above unity (it's unity gain normally). And the switch makes a popping sound when engaged or disengaged (it's silent when the Manecco is out of the chain).
The boost itself is a Spaceman Atlas.

that sounds like bad interaction between the pedal and the amp... not just normal tone sucking you would find in a badly designed bypass system. (what amp do you use?)

cheers, Iain

[HH1978]

Thanks for the detailed reply

I don't know what the input impedance of the Manecco is, I'll open it and see if I can spot the input resistor and cap.

I use various amps, but now that you mention it, I only noticed the issue with the blackface Vibrolux reverb. I'll try with another amp and report.

[HH1978]

Same issues with a Trace Elliott Velocette and a Magnatone 213...

I could only see the back of the PCB, so I can't tell about the input resistor. Some fragile wires inside, so I'll avoid to disassemble it.

I'll try tomorrow with the buffer, the board is done, but I have to drill an enclosure, and it's too late today to make noise...

[HH1978]

I have 2.68 Vdc at the output jack of the delay, might that be the issue?