Flintlock Flanger not Sweeping

[matopotato]

Schematic is either in build pdf https://lectric-fx.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Flintlock-V.1.3.pdf
Also there is a snapshot picture here https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h-MUHV5AbzBCSOSD9hC4_BePrmpZCuWr/view?usp=share_link
The pin numbers are a bit hard to read either way IMHO.

V in: 9,19
TP "15V": 14,71
TP "7,5V": 6,98

IC1 (4558L)
7,0
7,0
6,37
0
9,37
9,38
9,38
13,9

IC2 (4558L)
4,69
4,69
4,69
0
6,98
6,98
6,99
14,0

IC3 (4558L)
6,70-7,40
6,95
6,95
0
6,98
6,99
6,25-8,0
14,35

IC4 (LM1458)
5,0-7,8         14,40
7,83             7,11-8,2
6,40-8,0       7,0
0                 6,99

IC5 (CD4007) fluctuates a bit
1,78    14,73
1,67    13,0-13,55
0         1,2-1,8
1,82    8,0
1,84   ~5,3
0        0,2
0       1,69

IC6 (CD4047 on loan from phaser)
12,78-13,6  14,73
1,3-1,8       13,0-13,55
8                0
14,7           7,33
14,65         7,20
14,66         0
0                0

IC7 (7815L)
16,15
0
14,67-14,75

IC8 (4558L)
9,22
3,86
3,86
0
5,79
5,80
5,19-5,45
14,36

IC9 (CD4049)
14,7             0
7,10-7,16     7,07-7,18
7,16-7,24     7,14-7,24
7,14-7,23     0
7,27            6,99-7,12
7,23            7,21-7,28
7,20-7,27    6,98-7,12
0                7,22-7,29

IC10 (MN3007)
14,5-14,6    6,85-7,18
7,07-7,18    7,01-7,29
9,39-9,46    6,96-7,11
0,99           0

IC11 (LT1054)
0         9,18
4,41    6,17
0        3,45
0        0

IC12 (4558L)
7,0
7,0
7,0
0
6,97
9,99
7,01
14,01

IC13 (4558L)
5,01
7,01
6,99
0
6,94
7,01
7,00
14,02

[matopotato]

so it doesn't work even with the countdown's chip ?

Well, it swings with the CD4047 substituting from Countdown, but not really flanging. And each cycle of wanna be "~flange-swing" there is like a thick tick.

I was thinking about an issue with the expression's jack wiring. I'd unsolder it to make sure, until everything else is fine.

OK, might do that, but it has not been an issue before, and works as it should during Frq setting/calibrating, so I doubt it is the main problem in my case.

Edit : make sure you have 15V at test point before trying any other 4047 IC, max voltage is 15V on this chip :

https://pdf1.alldatasheet.fr/datasheet-pdf/view/80423/NSC/CD4047.html

Yes, it is 15V where it should be 15V

So far I think the 4047 was fried at boxing. But there might be other ICs that were either fried or at least semi-fried, and will see if I can figure out which ones.
the MN3007 is a bit expensive to swap out...

[eh la bas ma]

How could you fry an IC when you put the circuit inside the enclosure ?

Power supply was unplugged, I guess ? So no current...

Should I post my own readings so we can compare ?

4047 and 4007 maybe ?

[matopotato]

How could you fry an IC when you put the circuit inside the enclosure ?

Power supply was unplugged, I guess ? So no current...

Should I post my own readings so we can compare ?

4047 and 3007 maybe ?

Yes please, if you have them. But do not unbox for this purpose.

How anything got fried, not sure.
Just notice the 4047 is quite out

[eh la bas ma]

4047 :

1= 15.06                                            14= 15.17
2= oscillating from 100 mV to 2.2 V   13= 15.06
3= 8.04                                              12= 0
4= 15.17                                            11= 7.55
5= 15.17                                            10= 7.58
6= 15.16                                             9= 0
7= 0                                                    8= 0

4007 :

1= 0.8  14= 15.16
2= 0.8  13= 15.16
3= 0     12= oscillating from 100 mV to 2.4 V
4= 0.8   11= 8.3
5= 0.8   10= oscillating from 5V to 7V
6= 0      9= oscillating from 20mV to 0.5V
7= 0      8= 2mV to 42 mV

Edit : circuit powered with 18V (no IC11) and switched off. I guess oscillations means the chips are healthy, they're flanging...

Edit 2 : now you owe me a great deal ?

[matopotato]

4047 :

1= 15.06                                            14= 15.17
2= oscillating from 100 mV to 2.2 V   13= 15.06
3= 8.04                                              12= 0
4= 15.17                                            11= 7.55
5= 15.17                                            10= 7.58
6= 15.16                                             9= 0
7= 0                                                    8= 0

4007 :

1= 0.8  14= 15.16
2= 0.8  13= 15.16
3= 0     12= oscillating from 100 mV to 2.4 V
4= 0.8   11= 8.3
5= 0.8   10= oscillating from 5V to 7V
6= 0      9= oscillating from 20mV to 0.5V
7= 0      8= 2mV to 42 mV

Edit : circuit powered with 18V (no IC11) and switched off. I guess oscillations means the chips are healthy, they're flanging...

Edit 2 : now you owe me a great deal ?

So what can I do for you?

[eh la bas ma]

We'll see in my next troubleshooting post...

For now, you can clean this board, and make it work, please.

I'd say your readings don't look too bad ? It's approximately the same.

[matopotato]

We'll see in my next troubleshooting post...

For now, you can clean this board, and make it work, please.

I'd say your readings don't look too bad ? It's approximately the same.

I suspect IC9 and or IC10, did you have their readings.from before?
Out 4007 differ a bit, but that could be due to mine getting not the proper signals.
Ot I don't know.

[eh la bas ma]

On IC 9 I have a solid 7.57 everywhere, but 0.4 V at pin 8 and 0V  at pin 16 and 13.

IC 10 is approximately the same as yours (7.57V is there too), i read oscillations at pin 7, from 5.50V to 6.99 V

[eh la bas ma]

Do you have a signal going through Q1 ?
Is there some signal at R22 and R26 ?



Is there any kind of modulated signal on the signal path ? Audio probing around the Mix trimmer should tell you if it's modulating :

[duck_arse]

matopotato - can you please confirm your readings on IC8 pin 1, IC12 pin 6, IC13 pin 1 ? and the voltages on Q1.

[matopotato]

Do you have a signal going through Q1 ?
Is there some signal at R22 and R26 ?



Is there any kind of modulated signal on the signal path ? Audio probing around the Mix trimmer should tell you if it's modulating :

Thanks,
Yes in the Mix trimmer there is a modulated signal. I think I wrote about it in #16. But I tested again and it modulates.
The Q1 has strong signal out on D and R26. Modulated.
G  veeeery faint.
R22 high unmodulated and not clean signal on D5 D6 side, but very faint on Q1 G facing side.

It does sweep. But it is not very flangy and it ticks at the end of each sweep cycle.
Will try to record.

[matopotato]

matopotato - can you please confirm your readings on IC8 pin 1, IC12 pin 6, IC13 pin 1 ? and the voltages on Q1.

Thanks!
Ok input 9.16V
The "15V" tp sweeps from 14,30V to 14.99V
Rhe Speed pot affects how muchbit sweeps, and Manual pot affects the value. (I thought the TP was at a fixed 15V point not a variable voltage...)

4.50-4.72 V on IC8 pin1. Seems to be affected by Speed pot.
I might redo with all pots in the calibration setting. And redo calibration as well...

IC 12 pin 6 started around 0.3 or 0.4 and the slowly dropped to 0.2 slowing down but not stopping.
And now ot is 7.15 dropping when I measure once more. It the sweeps 6.99-7.15 also seem to coincide with speed pot setting.
Very odd. The 0.2 - 0.4 does not reappear anymore, just 7.15 and sweeping.

IC13 pun 1 4.89-5.10

Q1 (2N5457)
G 4.7-6.85
S 6.88-7.16
D 6.89 -7.15

Not sure why all values sweep as they do.
Will recalibrate and try to set Speed in a stable setting and perhaps remeasure.

[matopotato]

...and here is an illustration of the clicky kind of sound in each cycle.
And the modulation sounds less flanger and more chorusy modulation as in some delay pedals...

Also not sure Manual knob does much IMHO. Threshold seems to do something, but nothing overwhelming.

https://soundcloud.com/user-558594533/flintlock-flanger-with-click-noise-each-cycle-and-strange-unflangymodulation?si=cc4150584d8d4f59b650207f1c5e1f5e&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

I did recalibrate it again before the recording.
Does a different 4047 individual affect the calibration settings?

[eh la bas ma]

Maybe try reducing the clock's sweep between 80KHz and 2.2MHz. Make sure the feedback and the Mix trimmers are set near the middle of their rotations, high settings can quicky make loud auto-ocillations.

If it's a power-environment related clock noise, maybe the 18V power supply trick could work. You just have to remove IC11 first.

Audio probing and investigating the signal path will probably help to narrow it down.

[matopotato]

Maybe try reducing the clock's sweep between 80KHz and 2.2MHz. Make sure the feedback and the Mix trimmers are set near the middle of their rotations, high settings can quicky make loud auto-ocillations.

If it's a power-environment related clock noise, maybe the 18V power supply trick could work. You just have to remove IC11 first.

Audio probing and investigating the signal path will probably help to narrow it down.

Thanks,
I spent quite some time getting 69.9k and 2.6M yesterday, so not ready just yet to redo that.
Also glad the 18V worked for you and I might do that too.
But I am still a bit stucknin the mystery as to why it used to work, but no longer does.
If it had never worked I wpuld be more inclined to try different things. Right now  would have liked to understand (and fix) what had gone wrong in the boxing stage.

[duck_arse]

Vb is derived from VR, which should be rock steady, and buffered by IC2.2. it should be rock steady everywhere it connects to. but you are reporting .... not quite rock steadies, and rather wide variances. I don't know if this is the problem or a pointer to, or just me, but, you never know.

[matopotato]

Vb is derived from VR, which should be rock steady, and buffered by IC2.2. it should be rock steady everywhere it connects to. but you are reporting .... not quite rock steadies, and rather wide variances. I don't know if this is the problem or a pointer to, or just me, but, you never know.

Thanks duck_arse,
Yes I felt it strange that it fluctuates in so many locations.
Any thought as to what can be the faulty area causing this?

I read about other circuits where LFO close to wire careying signal causes tick. But here the wires are away from the circuit.
Any other source or reason for ticking?

I have a nagging feeling the ticking and failure to flange and the voltages fluctuating might be related, but don't have the knowledge or experience to figure out where to look.

[bluebunny]

I read about other circuits where LFO close to wire careying signal causes tick. But here the wires are away from the circuit.
Any other source or reason for ticking?

The LFO may be modulating the power supply (periodically tugging lumps of current from it).  Treat the supply for the LFO and the supply for the audio part as two different circuits, each with their own LPF filtering.  Then join the two circuits' grounds at one point only.

[matopotato]

I read about other circuits where LFO close to wire careying signal causes tick. But here the wires are away from the circuit.
Any other source or reason for ticking?

The LFO may be modulating the power supply (periodically tugging lumps of current from it).  Treat the supply for the LFO and the supply for the audio part as two different circuits, each with their own LPF filtering.  Then join the two circuits' grounds at one point only.

Thanks,
Not sure how to apply that to a pcb kit build.
And the circuit was working ok at some point, so it is more of an introduced problem than an inherent one. (I think)