*grin*

[idlefaction]

i've seen some 'heated debates' here recently...  i know this is a pretty well known anecdote on the inter-web, but.

Arguing on the internet is like participating in the Special Olympics.
Even if you win, you're still a retard.

No offence intended to anyone with Downs Syndrome or anything, I didn't coin it, I just happen to think it's a clever turn of phrase and sums up my feelings on the subject well.

This is a place to be nice to each other, k?  

hope this helps someone chill out.  respect to aron.  if you're feeling like flaming, go smoke some weed or something.  *grin*

[petemoore]

I had to kwit smoking 'that'...lol...ya never know exactly what in it.

[smoguzbenjamin]

I have never smoked pot in my life I don't intend to either, I quit smoking more than a year ago and it's saved me a lot of cash

But yeah Darren you've got a pretty good point there.

[Mark Hammer]

Sensible debate depends on either adhering to mutually acceptable formal rules very strictly, OR having a high enough capacity to articulate arguments that being reasoned is just as effortless as flaming, OR knowing enough about one's debating partner/opponent that mutual understanding can make up for whatever is lacking in the silver tongue department.

Unfortunately, when it comes to web-debates, most of these things will be absent a great deal of the time.  No one prefaces what they say by declaring they will abide by certain rules and no one is authoritarian enough to bump them off the forum if they don't (that's a GOOD thing most of the time, incidentally).  The mojority of folks here or on any forum are *interested* in a variety of topics but many are young and still honing their debating skills, occasionally a little too impulsive to help debate along, and often not extremely well-informed about the topic that captures their interest.  At the same time, while many of us here "know" each other (RG and I started corresponding in 1990 or 91), the overwhelming majority of folks don't know each other that well or that long, and when a forum is open to the whole world, you can expect a lot of folks who leap in to be less than flawlessly aware of what will offend or provoke someone else or who it might offend most.  Sometimes they intend to provoke, yes, but more often than not they just want to say what they want to say and feel like they are right.  That's not a crime, merely a source of awkwardness.

I hope for clever debate, but I don't always expect it to keep up, the same way I hope to keep the marble from rolling off the table but I don't expect to be able to do it indefinitely.  You take your lumps, accept the net for what it is, warts and all, and move on.  A grin probably helps, though.  I like the Buddha's grin more than Cheech and Chong, myself.

[smoguzbenjamin]

Mark,

You have a point, but I do generally try and think before I post something in a debate. And I also think that there are some unspoken rules here at this forum, simply the mutual respect that everyone shows here. I believe that that is the simplest rule of all; Respect one another and all will be OK, in my opinion

[Mark Hammer]

I don't doubt you do exactly what you describe.  Of course there are no universals in terms of how one conveys respect or thoughtfulness and that is inevitably where problems arise.  Person A's notion of what "simply expressing an opinion" ought to consist of is different from person B's notion of same.  Before you know it, two people who really had no animosity towards each other initialy are locked in battle because each thought "hey, I was just xxxxx-ing, but if s/he wants to get into it, bring it on!".

That's obviously a reflection on the flaws of humans in general when communicating in other than face-to-face modes, and certainly not a reflection on yourself, or anybody on this forum in particular.

Hmm, wasn't there some gimmick R&B song long ago called "Stuff you gotta watch..."?

[troubledtom]

ahhhhhhhhh, huuuuuuuuuuuum
  well, what someone does to get'm thru is their bizz. but the forum is big
and has a lot of young people on it.
 i likely say things that are (*^)*&^. but , yah some people "could" lite'n
up at times.
 i'll never sway someone to do weed ,beer or...........but i may tell'm to spank some ass and dive in. ohh heck i ...........
   i said too much already........
               - tom

[The Tone God]

This place seems pretty tame compared to most of the other forums out there on the net.

Everyone just lighten up. This is suppost to be fun. Someone rips on you leave it alone. Don't reply to it. Raise above that kind of immature behavour.

Have a laugh.

Andrew

[csj]

As the father of a severely hadicapped daughter of the age of 15 I've spent those past 10 years attending and organizing special olympics at a local level. I'm glad our lifestyle provides you a clever "anecdote" which sums up your feelings on the subject of "internet debate".

You are quite right...no matter how much we win in our little world of "retarded" people, with people like you around we are ALWAYS losers.

I learned a long time ago not to laugh at others misfortunes. Life has a funny way of kicking everyone's ass in the long run. It's just a matter of time.

I think it's time for me to move on now.

[Peter Snowberg]

While I appreciate the point you were trying to make Darren, I was disappointed by the analogy too.

I've engineered disability solutions in the past (alternative input devices) and I currently work for a center that specializes in providing physical therapy for people with a variety of disabilities including some that are very severe.

Unless you have first hand experience in that area, you could never know how courageous some of those people are. Many of them leave "able bodied" people in the dust. You just can't imagine what it's like to have to cope with such a situation. :cry:

-Peter

[Fret Wire]

With someone in my family who does have "first hand experience", Darren's analogy (not his actually) didn't offend me, because it's just semantics, nothing more. Neither does the refer analogy bother me. Once again, semantics.

One of the great things about the internet is that it opens up the whole world to you, like this forum. On the dark side, it gave criminals, grifters, perverts, and other "oxygen thiefs" a whole new turf to practice their craft on.

Take chat for instance: I refer to it as an "idiot's medium". Because everyone who chats is an idiot? Of course not. Because without the personal interaction between people: eyes, facial expressions, body language, etc., it's often hard to tell if you've communicated your ideas, or visa versa. Which leads to many of the put-downs and flaming. You sacrifice total communication for good manners. Like I always say, talk is nothing more than breath that makes a certain sound.

Take any forum: whether it's about knitting or stompboxes. They all have masters and beginners. Then notice what happens when they go off-topic. The playing field levels out, not suprisingly, sometimes for good or bad. Some forums handle this well, others don't. To Aron's credit, this forum does pretty well when an off-topic goes slightly bad. Other forums have allowed a few individuals to take over, and you see less beginners because they get flamed for their simple questions. The forum, in effect, becomes a personal chat room for the few verbal bullies that take it over.

When all else fails, good manners, and respect go a long way.

[Mark Hammer]

I think the gap between what Darren intended as gentle humour and what CSJ perceived as tiresome prejudice aptly illustrates the point I was trying to make about how damn easy it is to end up offending people you can't see or know any better because of what internet forums ARE: faceless, often historyless, and frequently nameless (though certainly chock full of handles).

It comes with the territory, unfortunately.

[Fret Wire]

Right Mark. We're basically saying the same thing in different ways. Since we can only control what we say, and not the other person's perception, it's always a good idea to remain respectful and stay on-topic. Less misunderstandings.