O.T.: Who pulls the biggest Homer?

[GuitarLord5000]

I can't think of a single guitarist that Prince can't at least hang with and most he can flat out blow away.

I can.  Prince cant hold a candle to Michaelangelo.  The fastest, burningest, dual-guitar wielding mutha of supa shred.  I may not care for his music, but DAMN its nice to watch him playing both guitars at the same time with technique to spare!  He'd be my nomination for the least recognized highly talented guitarist.  As for least talented highly recognized...Just turn on the radio.  There's a million to choose from.  It seems like the less talent you have these days, the more records you'll sell.

[csj]

Rap is the audio version of pornography.
Exquisitely suited to the modern attitude.

It's also an extremely powerful progaganda tool.
An "enemy" has been decided upon and the "artist's" basic intent is to damage it.

Like all good propaganda it appeals to the lowest common intelligence threshold, wraps itself in an air of spiritual legitimacy and never, ever doubts it's own presuppositions.

I don't consider it music at all.

I do consider it a force to be reckoned with.

[bwanasonic]

Rap is the audio version of pornography.
Exquisitely suited to the modern attitude.

It's also an extremely powerful progaganda tool.
An "enemy" has been decided upon and the "artist's" basic intent is to damage it.

Like all good propaganda it appeals to the lowest common intelligence threshold, wraps itself in an air of spiritual legitimacy and never, ever doubts it's own presuppositions.

I don't consider it music at all.

I do consider it a force to be reckoned with.

I find that profoundly ignorant. If you are going to make proclamations of this sort, make sure you have listened to a broad cross-section of the music in question, and have a good understanding of the roots and origins of that music. Either you are listening to shitty rap, or you are not listening. If the only rap and hip-hop you know is from commercial radio, then you don't know enough about rap and hip-hop to make this kind of assertion.  Your post sounds disturbingly like what the Nazis said about jazz music.

Kerry M

[Peter Snowberg]

If you listen to the radio, you're not going to hear a good representation of any modern music. That's just the commercial reality of it.

I don't listen to rap on any kind of a regular basis and I don't own any rap in my CD collection, but from my experiences there is some GREAT rap out there that takes serious talent to write and perform. It's still not the stuff I would listen to on a regular basis and I would rather listen to a lot of other stuff instead, but I still recognize the amount of talent it takes to pull it off well.

What I've heard in that category (including clubs, highschoolers working toward tinitus, and working in clubs) has been 2% Rap and 98% Crap. I still have to recognize that 2% as the real deal. A very real and unique art form.

There is a lot of rap that expresses the general feeling of living in an economically depressed area in the 1990s and 2000s just as there was a lot of punk rock that expressed the same feelings in the 1970s and 80s. I relate to the  punk to a degree and there's a lot of awful punk too. At the same time, punk will always be one of my favorite forms of rock thanks to the good stuff.

I was always VERY un-impressed with Eminem until I heard "White America". I dig that tune. Lots of truth in it, and a great example of the modern spirit of well done punk. It may have plenty of shock, but it's HONEST.

You just can't generalize 100%

BTW: RUN-DMC put on one hell of a good show back in the late 1980s.

take care,
-Peter

[jimbob]

Rap as we know it wont last-- itll warp into something else further down the line--Im not a fan-as im not a fan of many art works--but what matters is that someones enjoys it. Many of the "so called" technical /more snooty/serious writers--believe Stephen King is a joke--but many enjoy his books--i do..
anyway...

Rolling stones--great many original tunes--better redone by others! Jagger--eeww ugly huge mouth!! flapping in the wind!!!
GnR --jumping jack flash-, Janes Addictions-Sympathy for the Devil.
all did better versions as an example

Dylan- Hendrix's  do-overs of his--watchtower. Though Dylan was/is very creative! GnR  re du of Knocking on heavens door even better--clapton killed--not in a good way- that along with bob marley's I shot the Sheriff!!

Prince-- i liked purple rain! He is a he right? a thing? symbol?

Eminem--good at what he does i guess--I believe white/corporate america wanted someone to fill those shoes..though they would have  eventually found someone to represent new/ current culture if it werent him. all bout the $$$$...Still creative though.

I feel bad saying this--but i agree about the kreiger comment--i never really thought he was all that great--at all--Morrison woulda made it with or without him..still a fan though. just realistic.

Courtney Love-- killed Cobain--all i have to say bout that..

[bwanasonic]

a great example of the modern spirit of well done punk. It may have plenty of shock, but it's HONEST.

Punk is a great example of making a whole artform out of, or in spite of one's *inablity*. I came up in the era of  fusion and virtuoso *shred*, and I can solo in the super-locrian mode at 150bpm and all, but damn if I don't love going to a club to see *kids* transcend there so-called *inabilty* and just  play and have fun and ROCK.  Especially the ones who don't give an F about *stardom*.

At the Abbey most friday nights...

Kerry M

[travissk]

When talking about a sufficiently short timespan (specificially the past 14.5 minutes of fame), I would say William Hung

[freeradical24]

i tire of peoples critism of kurt cobains style if you listen to all of his material you would know he can pull of crazy and yes intricute solos that would blow your mind not to mention his phenomonal control of feedback without a tremelo i might add.but he put as much guitar in his songs as was needed for the songs he was writing.
     sorry but like him or not prince kicks butt at several different insturments.
          people like satriani and vai could learn from these two. like how much is to much and when.
  as far as bad guitarists i dont know they're names so ill name the bands
korn slipknot disturbed limp bizkit lincoln park sum 41 blink 182 and all others within this vien.oh yeah and i hate tom morrelo but considering the fanfare there must be something hes done outside of rage against the machine i havnt heard.  
           im not normally a prick im just tired

[Greek Acrobat]

You might want to try actually listening to some Hip Hop other than what is played on the radio. The wealth of talent is staggering. Listen to Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Blackaliscious, Aesop Rock, The Roots and Common just to name a few. Hip Hop is a continuation and celebration of the tradition of Black Music, containing elements of jazz, soul, R&B, funk, blues and rock. I can see not enjoying Hip Hop, but claiming there is no talent involved is absurd.

If you hadn't said it, I would have.

Much of the comments in this thread about 'rap' have been particularly ignorant. Others have occaisionally been on the money but fail to make some important distinctions.

Bwanasonic has mentioned so really great Hip Hop already, please don't get it mixed up with 'gangsta' rap or anything along those lines. 50 cent is a vain neanderthal - Blackaliscious rule.  

[travissk]

oh yeah and i hate tom morrelo but considering the fanfare there must be something hes done outside of rage against the machine i havnt heard.  

He's currently playing with "Audioslave," which is if I remember right, Rage Against the Machine without the frontman (Zack de la Rocha?) and with Soundgarden's singer instead (forgot his name).

He does some decently cool stuff with effects, and I've listened to their only album a few times (self-titled, Audioslave). The Whammy solo on Like a Stone is pretty cool for how simple it is. Aside from that it's more or less standard fare, similar to what I've heard on Rage albums (not that I listen to much RatM).

I might be missing something too, I don't see how Morello keeps getting so much praise. I think some well-known magazine voted him player of the year or something.

[Bassybert]

Anyone who's listened to people like Mic Geronimo, The Pharcyde, Souls of Mischief (especially 93 till infinity), De La Soul, RUN DMC will understand what true hip hop is about and where it originated from. If people listening to the radio hear Snoop Dogg, 50 Cent et all then that's all they are going to know. You've got to dig deeper than that my friends.

To epitomise the current mainstream hip hop scene, especially here in the UK (and fellow Brits will know who i'm on about) I mention Tim Westwood, possibly the most narrow minded, pretentious rap DJ ever. We've only got one national rap show here in the UK, and if he's the only one to listen to, it's no wonder hip hop is misunderstood.

As far as lack of talent - fame goes, i'd have to say the guys from Oasis are probably the most retarded, talentless around, and I still can't believe they have the arrogance to think they are important anymore.

Cool Britania indeed.

Jim

[Arno van der Heijden]

Morello: Listen to the first RATM cd. There are some really groovy tunes on there. Morello does some original tricks with his effects (mimicking record scratching etc.). Very recognizable.

Korn: In the beginning they were pretty original as well, before everybody else started tuning down to B. They have a pretty original sound, listen to their first albums. Also very recognizable. I too hated them, but when I saw them live..... oh man.....

Blink182: I just love them. They wrote some really good pop songs. No bragging there. Very recognizable sound.

I'm glad people agreed with me on the Rolling Stones, but one band that really makes me sick is Good Charlotte, especially the song "Lifestyles of the rich and the famous". AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHH. They claim to be punk... YUK.... And you have to see how their dressed..... They're just a boy band doing rock songs...

[axis]

All music, art-forms can only be gauged  by the  positive ,or negative impact they have upon people and societies.We can only see this impact by the commercially popular form of that music, art.The negative impact of  todays commercially successful  rap on society is indisputable;and I think that's why people have such strong negative fellings about it. Music ,or art should incite people to appreciate life,not degrade it.Those who say there are some talented rap artists out there fine,could be, but when people criticize *rap* they're speaking about  what is seen on MTV.

[Jered]

By the fourth or fith post this thread was moot. Prince can play, Kurt wrote beautifully catchy songs, the Stones can do it all.
 Ok, Fred Durst......he and Wayne Brady need to switch  skins, and Fred would still have no talent.
 Jered

[lightningfingers]

Anyone who's listened to people like Mic Geronimo, The Pharcyde, Souls of Mischief (especially 93 till infinity), De La Soul, RUN DMC will understand what true hip hop is about and where it originated from. If people listening to the radio hear Snoop Dogg, 50 Cent et all then that's all they are going to know. You've got to dig deeper than that my friends.

i cant agree with you enough there, the current "hip hop" scene in britian is so pretentious and prefabricated.

other names id like to throw in are busted, and the darkness

[AL]

I agree with the good rap/bad rap thing.  Some of the bands mentioned are fantastic - you just never hear them.  Which is typical of any medium.  You've gotta go digging for the good stuff.

Rolling Stones?? I will respectfully disagree with the Stones "bashing".  Listen to the Mick Taylor years.  Great guitar player - very tasty.  They really screwed up when they let that guy go. Sticky Fingers !!! ...  Exile on Main Street is one of the very few albums that IS an album. You could pick out more popular (or maybe better) songs on other Stones albums but front to back that album has a "feel" to it that I can't put a finger on.  It's just ... great - but you can't listen to one song - you have to listen to the whole album in one setting.  The only other album I can think of that has done this for me is The Clash - London Calling.   (OK that was my rant)

As for the "who blew it" original question?? Hands down my vote goes to the Replacements.  What a wasted oppurtunity.  If there was ever a reason NOT to drink this band is it.  

AL

[Johan]

..ok, I know you gonna hate me now...Kirk Hammet....has he ever been able to play in tune? or is he just tonedeth?...sloppy wah, out of tune....it makes me..argh..cant listen....and reportedly, he wasnt good enough to play rythm on the first few Metallica albums he played on ( after replacing Dave Mustain )..but still consider guitarhero?....AAARGH..must scream now...

Johan

[Samuel]

All music, art-forms can only be gauged  by the  positive ,or negative impact they have upon people and societies.

And you feel qualified to make this judgment? Particularly in the midst of the rap "movement" if you will? The Rite of Spring caused riots when it opened.

We can only see this impact by the commercially popular form of that music, art.

So the rebellion and vitality and aggressive indivualism of punk rock is meaningless now that Green Day and Blink 182 have co-opted it? The bland ubiquity of Mona Lisa reproductions erases the work of DaVinci?

Music ,or art should incite people to appreciate life,not degrade it.

Says who?

Those who say there are some talented rap artists out there fine,could be, but when people criticize *rap* they're speaking about  what is seen on MTV.

I have to imagine you wouldn't be saying that about tiresome Led Zeppelin retreads. If someone listened to Poison and Enuff Z Nuff and went out to rail against rock music you'd hit the damn roof. Try listening to some decent hip hop instead of Bill O'Reilly.

[casey]

..ok, I know you gonna hate me now...Kirk Hammet....has he ever been able to play in tune? or is he just tonedeth?...sloppy wah, out of tune....it makes me..argh..cant listen....and reportedly, he wasnt good enough to play rythm on the first few Metallica albums he played on ( after replacing Dave Mustain )..but still consider guitarhero?....AAARGH..must scream now...

Johan

[bwanasonic]

The negative impact of  todays commercially successful  rap on society is indisputable

Of course it's disputable. The same thing was said about rock & roll in the 50's . The claims throughout history of the decadent negative influence of a given artform are generally just good for chuckles for later generations. You can find quotes from antiquity that sound an awful lot these claims about rap music.

Kerry M