What happened to the Guitar solo??

[bwanasonic]

"You can change/edit/marmalise samples and loops in real time and this CAN be creative."

I'm not saying that it is not creative... I just don't consider that to be music, in the classical view. I guess I should have said that to start.  :oops:

I'm not sure how triggering a sample is fundamentaly different than banging an animal skin or plucking a string or pressing keys on a keyboard? When I pluck a string, I'm triggering an *event* that is no more music by definition than someone triggering a sample. The Mellotron was an example of sample triggering in a *classical* sense. It's up to the person doing the triggering to make it musical. I came up in the *Virtuoso* era, and I can play that style well (and musically I hope!), but I never equated virtuosity with musicality. I've heard DJs with a single turntable be WAY more musical than a lot of guitar players, and people with laptops make some truly creative music live. I consider them virtuosos AND musical.

Kerry M

[gez]

Hmmm, I've got a vague feeling I got it from a kids program I watched when a child.

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/tombstone/890/potty.htm

It seems to be a Merseyside saying

"Marmalise: to chastise severely. Shaw writes that the word is a mixture of murder and paralyze. All no doubt sweetened by a bit of marmalade.
Source: SHAW I, LS1"

So to marmalise somthing is to murder it/smash it to pieces (in a nice way?).  Something you could do with loops/samples...

[Johan]

Many of historys greatest albums would never had been releast if the artist was looking for a contract today...thats the point i was trying to make
...just imagine...A fat guy walks in to a large recorcompany. he says he want to make a record with a Broadway musical-type of rock....the songs are great, but this is not what anyone has asked for....would he be signed?....Meatloafs "Bats out of hell" is still selling thousands and thousands of records each year...or how about this..well established band in the bluesrock genre looses their leadguitar player, hires two girls for the vocals and changes genre..what recordcompany today would NOT kick them out?...who doesnt like the songs on "Roumors" by Fleetwood Mac?...
Bjorn Ulveus and Benny Andersson where two well loved artists here in sweden in the Late 60's. after their careers went to a halt, they joined forces...the recordcompanies at first all said " it worked once, never twice...give up.."....anyone heard of ABBA?..
I am sure you can come upp with a list too...

musical brilliance doesnt need to have anything to do with technical abillity, but it might be helpfull sometimes...
...and who here doesnt enjoy all the long solos on all those Pink Floyd albums?

.so..if you dont like solos, and you dont want your guitar to sound like a guitar....why oh why didnt you pick another instrument?

Johan

[Paul Marossy]

"I'm not sure how triggering a sample is fundamentally different than banging an animal skin or plucking a string or pressing keys on a keyboard? When I pluck a string, I'm triggering an *event* that is no more music by definition than someone triggering a sample. The Mellotron was an example of sample triggering in a *classical* sense. It's up to the person doing the triggering to make it musical. I came up in the *Virtuoso* era, and I can play that style well (and musically I hope!), but I never equated virtuosity with musicality."

Well, put that way, triggering a sample is kind of like plucking a string. But, when you let the computer do the playing, I fail to see how it is the musician doing it anymore. That's the point I'm trying to make. Kind of like Tomita doing "The Planets" solely via synthesizer controlled by a computer. It is cool music, but it's really more computer programming than someone performing a piece of music. I do think it is cool when someone uses something like a Roland VG-8 to make their guitar sound like a horn (Pat Metheny) or a trumpet (Al Di Meola). But the guitarist is still playing an instrument, it just mimics the sound of another instrument.

Virtuosity doesn't equal musicality. Agreed. But, there are a few who can do both. For some reason people love to hate Steve Vai, for example. Granted, not everything he did was tasteful, or even good. But he has recorded some killer stuff, too. So why does everyone seem to hate him? I think it is because when a "virtuoso" like him does something in bad taste, then he gets labeled as a wanker. I don't think that is fair to just lump all of those "virtuosos" together. They are not all bad nor are they all unmusical. That's all I'm trying to say.

[RDV]

For some reason people love to hate Steve Vai, for example. Granted, not everything he did was tasteful, or even good. But he has recorded some killer stuff, too.

Every time I listen to "For The Love Of God", I get chicken skin & I tear up & get all emotional. It's incredible. If that piece of music doesn't move you, you're unmovable. For a larf, I like"Kill The Guy With The Ball" also. Steve Vai doesn't suck, however, Guy Mann-Dude does! :wink:

RDV

[Paul Marossy]

RDV-

I like the Ultra Zone. That's a pretty cool album. Ever heard it?

[Alex C]

I'll second "For the Love of God."  Aboslutely incredible.   I've got the G3 (Satriani, Vai, Eric Johnson) live DVD, and Vai's performance of this song is amazing.  My favorite part is a point in the song where he's doing pull-offs down the neck, and when he reaches his "target" note at the end of his descending run he does a hammer-on and uses his right hand to just point at that fret and he smiles at it.
(His "Attitude Song" is also very impressive, as Mike Keneally plays along with Vai note-for note, even on the dive bombs and crazy noises.)  Steve Vai is excellent, with unbelievable musicianship if you ask me (or if you don't).


Alex

[bwanasonic]

Steve Vai, for example. Granted, not everything he did was tasteful, or even good. But he has recorded some killer stuff, too. So why does everyone seem to hate him? I think it is because when a "virtuoso" like him does something in bad taste, then he gets labeled as a wanker.

I think "Steve Vai" has just become a synonym for "The Virtuoso". I saw him on his first tour with Zappa (when he had blue hair!), and he was nice enough to answer my letters ( pre email days) so I certainly don't hate him. Then again I liked that Return To Forever stuff Tim metioned! I got a good laugh out of that. As I said, that is my background, and I can play the 4th mode of the demented scale at 150 BPM and all. I like extended solos by true improvisers and listen to a lot of jazz. Hell, I listened to *Heart Of Sunrise* from Yessongs 10 times in the last two weeks (minidisc of vinyl even!) But I also embrace the punk/garage/hip-hop/indie/DIY aspect of music and can see why traditional virtuosity can be viewed with disdain. Especially if it gets in the way of a good pop song.

Kerry M

[WGTP]

http://guitar.about.com/library/bl100greatest.htm