Vox Clyde McCoy Wah, build report,... Any ideas for Hendrix wah tone?

[RDV]

If ya really want vomit just stick a little Syrup Of Ipecac on the tip of your tongue and there you have it!

Vomit

RDV

[Pedal love]

stratomaster, that sounds good, but not the tone i am looking for, but that does sound clear and precise, yet watery and bassy at the same time!! cool!!

I have on order some tropical fish, WIMA caps, carbon comps, etc,.. hopefully it will improve,... still researching a real lot

Ritchie, I think that you should concentrate on other parts than clyde type, more like thomas organ wahs . That stratomaster audio clip sounds more like a clyde wah, than anything I have heard in a while. You might want to get those thomas organ wah capacitors that look like they were wrapped in wax paper. You should also try for some tdk square inductors-might give you the sound you want.

[formerMember1]

What kind of caps are those that looked like wrapped wax paper, i can't find them/know what they are?

no, i liked his tone, But didn't think it was exactly what i want. Trust me, mine is really thin comapred to that,...

[Pedal love]

What kind of caps are those that looked like wrapped wax paper, i can't find them/know what they are?

no, i liked his tone, But didn't think it was exactly what i want. Trust me, mine is really thin comapred to that,...

click here-   http://cgi.ebay.com/Thomas-Organ-Co-Cry-Baby-95-910511-Wah-Wah-Pedal_W0QQitemZ7367974342QQcategoryZ41422QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[formerMember1]

yeah cool, but i would rather buy the caps for my wah, are they polystyrene?  i ordered .22uf fish caps off www.classicfuzz.com,(is that you) and i ordered some WIMA mixed film .22uf caps, that are close to polycarbonate(which is obsolete, but is what the ARCO caps are made of), and i am ordering carbon comps, 1/2 watt, and i am also ordering WIMA .01uf polypropylene to compare against the .01uf polystyrene by xicon.

What are those things that are sticking through the board, where the wires are soldered to on that wah?  I would like to get these, that would be easier to do i think, than solder wires directly to board, that way, the wiring will be neater,... ?

thanks 

PS:I want to make this wah,  a nice Clyde McCoy version, not as vomity as the tdk inductor wahs, but still vomity and vocal like Jimi Hendrix's,...maybe i will build another wah like that one for sale,... 

[Pedal love]

I am not sure what type of capacitors the waxed paper ones are, maybe some type of wrap and fill variety. They were in certain american solid state audio amps in the 1970's.

Yeah Ritchie thats me. If you are from Penn, you will be getting your order in the next 2-3 days.I have a lot of time and money invested in these capacitors. I really don't know how much longer I can do it. I am currently on a search for 0.01uf  and .22uf Arco blue polydip capacitors. 

Those things sticking up are called wire wrap posts. Older wahs like these used them. I don't think you can get them presently unless they are custom ordered, maybe on some generic tag boards. They were actually riveted through the boards. Dangerous, as these boards were prone to breakage, as in the ebay item.

I hate to say this but for "anything Hendrix" wahs, except the very early stuff, I would go with the Roger Mayer 9090 hi-lo circuit. The circuit is very similar to the Jimi Hendrix wah from Dunlop, except the values are a little bit different and the inductor is center tapped. I know it has a buffer, but he makes it work.pl

[Dai H.]

yeah cool, but i would rather buy the caps for my wah, are they polystyrene?  i ordered .22uf fish caps off www.classicfuzz.com,(is that you) and i ordered some WIMA mixed film .22uf caps, that are close to polycarbonate(which is obsolete, but is what the ARCO caps are made of), and i am ordering carbon comps, 1/2 watt, and i am also ordering WIMA .01uf polypropylene to compare against the .01uf polystyrene by xicon.

What are those things that are sticking through the board, where the wires are soldered to on that wah?  I would like to get these, that would be easier to do i think, than solder wires directly to board, that way, the wiring will be neater,... ?

thanks 

PS:I want to make this wah,  a nice Clyde McCoy version, not as vomity as the tdk inductor wahs, but still vomity and vocal like Jimi Hendrix's,...maybe i will build another wah like that one for sale,... 

I would advise to remember to experiment with the *values* more than the type--which is not to say the type can never matter--but if you take old caps, Rs, tolerances can be sloppy (depends because for example I have old mid 60s ceramics w/2% tol.), so say a sloppy tolerance for that .01uF freq. cap, and right there that partially explains why two wahs can sound different. For example I have a .015uF which happens to be a tropical fish at the input (because the place I bought them from were out of .01 or .012), but I would say it's far more the value than the type that gives its contribution, in terms of the degree of influence. Oh yeah, reminds me there some japanese page w/wah mod info, where the guy was trying to clone the sound of a vintage one modifying a reiss. V847, and while he did try to match the parts types, he had some freq. analyzer or something like that where he could get some sort of quantitative info, and IIRC ended up tweaking the .01 to .014 or something like that adding parallel capacitance in order to match the response of the oldie. Hmm... now that you got me in touch with my parts fetishism,  it made me think of measuring a bag of old NOS 470ohm 1/4W c.film Rs (which mostly measured on the high side), and a bag of 51k 1/4W c.comp (around a 1000? of these probably stored in really poor conditions) which were waaay off mostly high (68k, 75k?). So some ancient wah has c.comps sprinkled here and there which may have been off in the first place and maybe gone far out of whack over time--yet another reason they can sound different. Like the 68k input, 1.5k, 33k, etc. etc. So (sry, very long-winded, I know) if you're not changing the value but the type, it's possible you might not be doing much at all. Plus, if the actual value of a "special" tropical fish, carbon comp, etc. that you put in is off from the stated value, you could end up thinking that there was some magic in something when it was actually just different in capacitance, resistance, etc.

Also, was thinking about the "Hendrix wah sound", and maybe he was getting more of the sound (esp. the distortion, i.e. the Fuzz Face) from his efx. more than the amp distortion (much more than one tends to think when thinking of someone using a Marshall). And the "vomit" I'm thinking it must be something to do w/distortion outside the wah. Some of the Hendrix wah sounds are just so cool, I'd like to try to figure more of it out.

[formerMember1]

yeah, thanks for the reply, i understand that tolerances affect tone due to not being "right on", but i am willing to do anything to make the wah better, i already built it stock with high quality parts, so am trying "different" parts, I already tweaked all the part values and didn't like it,...

But jeeze, i am buying brand new carbon comps, not old ones, and they have a 5% tolarance so, that isn't much different than the tolarance that of carbon films that everyone uses around here,...right?

I understand the Mojo thing, but want to use them anyway, for the sake of being original.  I really do think the sound will improve when i "swap" material parts...or maybe it is just that i got high hopes. 

[Paul Marossy]

Also, was thinking about the "Hendrix wah sound", and maybe he was getting more of the sound (esp. the distortion, i.e. the Fuzz Face) from his efx. more than the amp distortion (much more than one tends to think when thinking of someone using a Marshall). And the "vomit" I'm thinking it must be something to do w/distortion outside the wah. Some of the Hendrix wah sounds are just so cool, I'd like to try to figure more of it out.

I was going to mention something along those lines as well. A wah will have a certain sound, but everything else also factors in there, too. It can be really elusive trying to duplicate a certain sound, huh?!

[Paul Marossy]

I understand the Mojo thing, but want to use them anyway, for the sake of being original.  I really do think the sound will improve when i "swap" material parts...or maybe it is just that i got high hopes.

Well, it's not bad to have high hopes... 

[formerMember1]

Also, was thinking about the "Hendrix wah sound", and maybe he was getting more of the sound (esp. the distortion, i.e. the Fuzz Face) from his efx. more than the amp distortion (much more than one tends to think when thinking of someone using a Marshall).

Right on!! I hate high preamp gain amps, unless your playing a big hairband cover from the 80's,..Bon Jovi, Ratt, Motley Crue anyone???

anyway, i use a fuzzface with it, the amp is almost clean, if not clean, mainly any dist from amp is speaker cone breakup from the amp being maxed or near it, then power tubes come into play 

Well, it's not bad to have high hopes... 

Yeah, high hopes are always a good thing, even when you are not dealing with fx pedals. 

[Pedal love]

Also, was thinking about the "Hendrix wah sound", and maybe he was getting more of the sound (esp. the distortion, i.e. the Fuzz Face) from his efx. more than the amp distortion (much more than one tends to think when thinking of someone using a Marshall).

Yeah, high hopes are always a good thing, even when you are not dealing with fx pedals. 

Its best to always have high hopes.

[no one ever]

ello there... chiming in for my build report.

built pretty much exactly as spec'd on fuzzcentral, but a NP 4.7uf to ground instead of the standard polarized electro. polystyrene .01 caps... metallized polyester boxed .22's... metal films... arielfx halo... fulltone pot... carling dpdt... pretty much what your setup is, IIRC. but it sounds fine to me! although the very tip of the sweep is too high for constant use, the crybaby rocker minus rubber stoppers provides enough travel for me to accurately control it. sounds awesome to me. only difference i think between yours and mine is that my trannies are bc109's. oh and my NP cap is axial leaded, if you want to know everything. 



good luck finding your tone.

[Dai H.]

tried my guinea pig wah again, and it's still my impression that the new dunlop red fasel was a good change. I gather it must what RG talks about in his wah article (it adds even harmonic distortion). The sound is more pleasing and more interesting--an octave overtone seems really strong in the sound. So probably you do need an inductor that affects the sound in that way (whether Dunlop or not) if you're trying to get the old sound. So, it seems like you would want (for an old Vox/Crybaby sound) :

-the correct circuit (33k vs. 100k for the R paralleling the inductor, etc.--whatever specs please your ears)
-a pot with a "good" taper
-a "good" inductor
-the "right" transistors

-cap type? maybe a little or very slightly significant
-resistor type--maybe one of the least important (having tried Allen-Bradley, etc. carbon comps). I would guess carbon film is fine for most cases.

In the recent past couple of weeks, I tried a BC108C(?) marked CDIsomething (web search came up with Continental Devices of India--so current production apparently), and a 70s(?--some code w/"74" in the number marked, maker unknown) BC108B w/gold plated leads, in place of some old Hitachi Tr.(all three had the same can package, same pin outs--the Hitachi is some higher voltage obsolete gen. purpose low gain one which I arrived at after trying other ones--these seemed to help make the wah effect more effective on the low frequencies). All three seemed pretty much the same (i.e. no difference that was particularly noticeable).

re: buying the tropical fish, etc.: I guess you probably should because then you can at least be more certain about something even if the part(s) don't end up doing anything special. However if you don't have a cap meter and you experience a difference, you don't have a way of checking if the difference was from being a diff. capacitance value. IME, there is no guarantee that the old stuff will sound better or more interesting, but maybe it's better in a way to just go ahead and buy the damn parts (even though they may be hard to find and expensive) than to just be forever wondering whether something matters or not.

re: the Jimi sound: at this point my sense is that that wah sound basically comes from the wah although the other stuff in the chain (Fuzz Face, amp, plate reverb or whatever is being used in the recordings) probably helps to enhance the sound (and certainly you can't forget Jimi's mastery of wah technique!).

Lastly I put my other GCB-95 (the better sounding of two) back together since I also got a wah pot--tried it for a bit--and while it was okay, it wasn't too special. Ho hum, sort of.

[no one ever]

where can you get the translucent white pcb fuzzcentral has? did he just sand the other side down until the yellowness was gone?

[Paul Marossy]

where can you get the translucent white pcb fuzzcentral has? did he just sand the other side down until the yellowness was gone?

Some PCBs are white-ish rather than greenish-yellow. 

[formerMember1]

yeah, thanks for your replies and advice,... 

I think Mouser's pcb boards are clear like that.  Not sure though, just going by what the data sheet says for them, it says they are translucent, just guessing...

My board stock off smallbear is yellow, but the bigger piece's i got are brown.

I think the brown will be better for the Carbon Comps. 

That is funny that you got a great wah tone, and i didn't, given that we used the same parts,...  except the transistors,...

I'll post up my outcome as soon as i find out what is wrong, or what is "better" for me. 

no one ever, did you remove all the rubber stoppers?  even the front?
I feel the same way, about the treble range being bunched up at the end of the foot travel, maybe i will remove the rubber stoppers in front,...
But what will happen to the switch, stoppin from being engaged on or off?

[no one ever]

yeah, thanks for your replies and advice,... 

I think Mouser's pcb boards are clear like that.  Not sure though, just going by what the data sheet says for them, it says they are translucent, just guessing...

My board stock off smallbear is yellow, but the bigger piece's i got are brown.

I think the brown will be better for the Carbon Comps. 

That is funny that you got a great wah tone, and i didn't, given that we used the same parts,...  except the transistors,...

I'll post up my outcome as soon as i find out what is wrong, or what is "better" for me. 

no one ever, did you remove all the rubber stoppers?  even the front?
I feel the same way, about the treble range being bunched up at the end of the foot travel, maybe i will remove the rubber stoppers in front,...
But what will happen to the switch, stoppin from being engaged on or off?

i got a 12x12 fr-4 board from MG Chemicals off mouser, it's just like the smaller 4x3 board i got off small bear (which is probably just like yours). the datasheet said translucent, i guess it means you can see the traces through the top after etching.

all stoppers removed... when they're off, the switch will be a lot easier to hit, so you can't be forceful on your rocking. suits me well, but some other kids my age are frustrated using wah's i've chopped stoppers off of, saying they get cut off during a huge solo or something.

yeah, there is a rather high treble pitch at the end, but it actually emulates jimi's sound whenever he left his wah at the top for nasally fuzz solos. i just keep away from it unless i want it like that.

all in all, i would say this is pretty similar to my teacher's fulltone clyde... sonically. so far i've yet to see a schem for that magical beast.

[formerMember1]

all stoppers removed... when they're off, the switch will be a lot easier to hit, so you can't be forceful on your rocking. suits me well, but some other kids my age are frustrated using wah's i've chopped stoppers off of, saying they get cut off during a huge solo or something.

yeah, i will try that, i guess i will try removing them, only thing is, they are so hard to remove with out damaging them,

I have a 3PDT in their so i guess i better be careful, becuase it is already easy to turn the switch off as it is,...I guess i will remove the nut on the 3pdt and try,...

I think i read somewhere where hendrix took the stoppers off his wah, i remember on the berkley dvd you could see a good clip of him using the wah, i forgot to look to see if i could see the stopppers or not,...i'll look again,..

thanks 

[no one ever]

i think it would be nice if somebody posted a schem of a fulltone clyde (since in my experience that has been the closest to classic jimi-ness) for comparison... i know that it uses "greenies" and carbon comp r's, and the fulltone inductor + pot, but those are the only part differences i know of.

my build (first effect ever for me! a bit messy, yes, but it works)