zendrive pedals

[stumper1]

As long as they have enough business for them to accomplish their goals, there's no reason to change. And why should they? Because some guys on a DIY forum somewhere who are never going to buy their stuff anyway complain about it?!?!?

[frankclarke]

I half feel like bulk-buying Bad Monkeys, gooping them into Hammonds and selling them to myself for $300 on EBay. I'm going to kick myself if somebody else does that successfully .
If you want it hand built there is usually a lag time.

[Mark Hammer]

I just finished watching a number of Youtube demos of the Zendrive and a bunch of other similar pedals (Jetter, Cactus Crunch, yadda yadda), and honest to goodness, I couldn't tell any of them apart.  I tried, but I couldn't.  Maybe it was my headphones, maybe it was my ears, maybe it was the quality of the original recording, but nothing, nada, zilch, garnicht, rien, bupkes.  Absolutely nothing you could not override or replicate by picking a ittle different.

Of course, all these demos have the user setting it the way they like, without too much variation demonstrated or attempted.  Is it possible that the differences between these various pedals really exists in terms of the range through which each of their respective parameters can be set.  In other words, THIS one can push more drive, THAT one has more treble cut available, THAT one has the same tone but more output level, etc?  Are we really talking same basic tone but more dialability in some aspect?

[DougH]

It took him 11 years to figure out that he needed to become more efficient in production to reduce delivery times???

"Needed" is the operative word here. I don't think he "needs" to be more efficient as business is good. If he "wants" to, that's another thing.

[DougH]

I just finished watching a number of Youtube demos of the Zendrive and a bunch of other similar pedals (Jetter, Cactus Crunch, yadda yadda), and honest to goodness, I couldn't tell any of them apart. 

I have the same problem with "shootouts". I fully admit I just don't have the attention span for it anymore. Even more shocking, I've done "shootouts" at home with stuff I've designed and thought at times, "you know that really doesn't sound that much different"... I can't make it through the "pre-recorded licks" in the Tonefrenzy demos anymore. I just start nodding off.

There are differences, in feel and dynamics and so forth. But that just doesn't come across in a youtube video.

[Mark Hammer]

I think part of the problem is that:

a) The demonstrators are sometimes more interested in how THEY sound than how the pedals sound (not a crime, just not helpful)
b) There really ARE a lot of pedals that are mere nanometers apart in conception and execution.  We're talking pyramids in Egypt and Mexico  here, with seemingly different designers working in isolation but arriving at the same general outcome, through no fault of their own other than not being aware of each other.

And you though *I* needed to get out more.

[wampcat1]

well let's be honest... let's say you have 5 overdrives, all opamp based. There's only so many ways you are going to clip a circuit. Then, there's pre and post clipping eq. After THAT, there's mic'ing, let alone if it's just a video camera mic (built in). Not an accurate reproduction. Even with a 57 on a speaker, move it 1/4" and it sounds different. The soundcard on the computer affects it. Compressing and decompressing of video files changes it.

By the time you are done, the accuracy of any tone on youtube is small. Here's a small example... the same circuit, one done with a video camera mic, one done with a 57 into a 4 channel behringer mixer (through 2 different amps):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wzs18Fya9U (breadboard, video camera, blues jr. 2x12 cabinet IIRC)
http://www.indyguitarist.com/soundclips2/ecstasy_crate_v32.mp3
http://www.indyguitarist.com/soundclips2/ecstasy_twin.mp3

I had a lengthy conversation with a well known pedal builder last night and I realized this (among other things):
Most of us on these DIY boards are into building effects. Some of us think it's cool if we can sell a couple on the side.
Some of us on here hide and wait for other to post stuff that way they can copy it and use it as their "R & D". These types are marketers, not pedal builders. These are the guys who are going to play a overdrive pedal into a cranked high end great sounding tube amp and say "look! It's the tone from my awesome pedal".
Others (like the wonderful builder I talked to last night) are going to say "look... this pedal works for me, it might work for you too. check it out. It isn't going to make you play better, but you may enjoy playing a little more."

Still others just want to belittle and blast anyone making a little money off of their love. They think it's just plain wrong that someone will pay $500 for a tubescreamer, and they take it upon themself to change that by spreading rumors and propaganda.

To sum it up, listen to Mark (hammer). THAT is the truth. If you want to build pedals for a living you are going to have to dedicate 75% of your time to "running the business"... making sure that you still have a business next month. You can't just build pedals all day long and hope sales come in tomorrow.

Brian

[DougH]

And you though *I* needed to get out more.

In addition, youtube has a tendency to attract the people that like to hang out in front of their webcams. So there's a greater chance that a youtube "demo" of some sort is coming from a bedroom navel-gazer rather than a working musician. Not that it makes it invalid, necessarily. But it helps to understand the perspective. I realize this may be considered blasphemy by some, but when you start playing out you start realizing that a lot of this crap really doesn't make any difference. Horrors! But it's true. I usually have one distortion pedal on my board at any given time. On the rare occasion that I have two, they do very distinctly different things. Distortion pedals rotate on my board usually due to other factors such as am I going direct or through my amp?, power requirements, due to that other pedal I need will this one fit?, etc... I can make my sound work with a multitude of different dirt boxes, and guess what? At the end of the day it still sounds like me... I love designing/building dirt boxes, but when it comes to the practicalities of preparing and packing for a gig, they are on the bottom of the totem pole, for me.