A/DA Flanger does TZF?

[sfr]

Did you try to measure clock at pin10 or 11 of the 4047. With my DMM I have massive problems getting reasonable readings at the test point. Sometimes I don't get any readings at all. At pins 10 and 11 you should have 50% duty which your freq counter also might prefer. At least with my DMM it gives very stable readings. Just my 2c   

You know, somewhere between reading your suggestions here and going to the board to make measurements when I was trying this suggestion from you earlier, I made a mental mix-up, and ending measuring at pin 10 and 11 of the SAD, not the 4047.   I was wondering what the hell was wrong.   I'll give the (correct) suggestion a try here a little later on.  Will the numbers still be "double" like the test point, or will I be reading the same frequencys the SAD is seeing? 

My father's bring the scope by on Monday or Tuesday, regardless of whether or not I get some of these things set up by then, it'll be interesting to see what all this stuff looks like on it.

I used two 33uF caps (like Version 3, I believe) in mine, for what it's worth, and I've got a huger range speeds than is really needed. 

[markusw]

Will the numbers still be "double" like the test point, or will I be reading the same frequencys the SAD is seeing?

The numbers will same the SAD is seeing. The 4047 has an internal divide by 2 stage. Thus on pins 10 and 11 freq is half the freq of pin13. Also by dividing by 2 non-50% duty cycle should be "converted" to 50%. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

My father's bring the scope by on Monday or Tuesday, regardless of whether or not I get some of these things set up by then, it'll be interesting to see what all this stuff looks like on it.

That for sure will be interesting. !! 

Markus

[sfr]

Hrm, a quick SAD related question - I have two SAD chips, one from Small Bear, one from eBay.

The one from Small Bear says "RETICON, SAD1024A 7903", on the front, and "Philippines" underneath.

The one from eBay has the same "RETICON, SAD1024A" on the front, but underneath has some wierd markings - "23 611", which looks like it's over something I can't really read that is sort of half there, (looks like it might say "FAIL" ?) and then "RE 24A" stamped in a whiter ink than the sort of silver ink used for everything else.

(Took a picture: http://homepage.mac.com/sfjoshua/chip.jpg )

Any clue what any of this means?  Just curious. 

[analog kid]

 

used two 33uF caps (like Version 3, I believe) in mine, for what it's worth, and I've got a huger range speeds than is really needed. 

  THIS Is what I figured.  I don't think you have any issues due to your using a Rev Log taper. Just tweak the  'fast' side of the LFO rate control down a tad and you should have really smooth control.  I did it with fixed resistor rather than the caps and it worked excellent. whether I'm sacrificing anything doing it this routed I am not really sure.

  Have you TRIED that BBD yet?  That looks very suspect to me.  It does look like a "fail" stamp there. EBAY huh?

Thanks for the observation! If you turn back range a bit and set manual to higher clock ranges shouldn't this give about the same effect? I'm not 100% sure how the range and manual pots interact so I'd be glad about explanations 

  I'm not sure about that either.  It's all very interactive and yes it would be better if this could be 'helped' w/o sacrificing some of the Gutteral Freq response. Though I haven't notice much difference or negative when going from 40khz to 80khz or so.   But it's just nice to be able to use WIDER range sweeps at faster speeds for vibrato's, leslie's and pitchshifting AND NOT have it get so "unusabely" Ugly. It pretty much limits only being able to use Faster (2/3 +) Speeds in combo with lower Range settings, definitely under 1/2.
 I think I've tried quelling this with Manual but Obviously it goes hand in hand (we're talking about trying to use HIGHER range settings with faster speeds) that the Manual control becomes Less and less effective the higher Range is set .  :icon_cry

 I agree w/ what some long time owners have told me : " it's amusing that there are so many BaD(unusable) sounds in there,  it's just that the GOOD ones are, SOOOO Good!!"      

[sfr]

Just popped that other chip in - it works - sort of.  Seemed like the effect was more subtle, but I had been twiddling trim pots.  Tried it again with the chip from Small Bear, and the flange was super deep again immediatly.   Seems like if you popped it into an old delay pedal to quickly check it, it would appear to be working.  Of course, it could have been something I did - I've put chips in and out of the sockets enough damn times, I'm not sure I've been using the same one, since I put pulled chips back into the foam to keep from losing them.  (I stepped on an upside down 4558 barefoot once - no fun at all.) 

Anyway -

Measuring at pin 10 and 11 worked perfectly with my meter - numbers jumped around a tiny bit, but just in the last couple of decimal places.  Those trim pots (T4 and T5) are *very* interactive, and super touchy, but eventually got the numbers where I needed them. 

Still having trouble setting T3 with the meter - when it gets to the top of it's swing, the numbers seem to get "stuck" sometimes.  They also appear to be much higher than the numbers when I'm using the Manual control, but setting the enhance into the point where I get "slide whistle" sounds, it seems like the range is the same whether using the LFO or the manual control.  Ended up just setting T3 by ear where the effect seemed the most intense. 

Any advice on setting the clock null trim?  (T6)

[analog kid]

(I stepped on an upside down 4558 barefoot once - no fun at all.) 

  HA!  Dude you have no idea!! I've done that more times than I care to count. I have done it to some more valuable IC's too  , that's when it REALLY SUcKS To do that.  ( luckily I have super tough feet too from being a redneck and going barefoot outside too often)
 
 If you're getting delay with the other bbd I 'd say you don't have a bad one there. Maybe just the differences in characteristics between them requiring some retweaking to get the same delay from . UNLESS you're talking like a HUGE difference in the intensity of the effect! If so there may be something to that strange marking

You say the "numbers get stuck' sometimes when trimming T3.  Uh, are you listening to the effect while you're adjusting this by any chance?  If not you would probably notice (and as I stated before) that when T3 is out of the 'area of adjustment' the LFO will STALL! yes the frequency will obviously freeze here.   HINT: You should set t3 to achieve the LFO sweeping to the same freq range parameters you set Manually.
 
 I'm having some trouble with my a/da for some reason ( I hope I didn't damage an IC possibly the 4047 when I finally got around to mounting the board!) I've had this thing built and sounding butter for a long time now but I got it out to pick some and found that My LFO got "sick" . In Full LFO/full range  I am getting a sweep matching the range calibrated manually, BUT now when taking the Freq meas from pin 13 4047,  The sweep is going far out of range up to like 3Mhz!!! when it should be stopping at 1.4khz in my case.
 anyone have ideas if It sounds like I've possibly damaged an IC after the bbd??  also I did try using a noninsulated jack (wasn't thinking AT ALL!!)  when I boxed it and for a brief moment it was grounding V+  before I caught it.  you know? the big HUMMM. don't know if this could have done any harm using the rectifier power section?
  Thanks

[Horace]

The one from Small Bear says "RETICON, SAD1024A 7903", on the front, and "Philippines" underneath.

The one from eBay has the same "RETICON, SAD1024A" on the front, but underneath has some wierd markings - "23 611", which looks like it's over something I can't really read that is sort of half there, (looks like it might say "FAIL" ?) and then "RE 24A" stamped in a whiter ink than the sort of silver ink used for everything else.

I also have one from Small Bear and one from eBay. We might have got the eBay ones from the same seller, mine has the "23611" but definitely has "PHIL" clearly printed underneath rather than "FAIL", a green fluoro dot and "RE24" something . The Small Bear one just has "PHILLIPINES" . I haven't quite finished populating the board so haven't been able to try them both. The other thing that looks a little dodgy with the eBay one is that it isn't completely smooth (coated ?) on the bottom or top surface like the Small Bear one and has what looks like sanding marks on one bottom edge. The top surface of the eBay one doesn't have the 7903 either.

Maybe the eBay one is a either re-labelled, poorly copied or just plain dodgy chip.......semiconductor piracy (?!) has been known to happen (ie the dodgy imitation Motorola T-03 power transistors with very much smaller semiconductor dies from a few years ago). Either way, I think I'll just stick to buying expensive IC's from a reputable vendor like Small Bear in future. 

[BMF Effects]

Resistor'd my board yesterday. It was slow going but I really wanted to make sure everything went where it was supposed to. Before placing an order with Mouser for the parts I don't have, I just wanted verify I few things.

CD4007 (IC5), CD4047 (IC6) and CD4049 (IC9) are unbuffered, yes?

Is the MC34074 the best option for IC1, IC2 and IC3?

I'm having trouble finding a LM7815 in the correct package and Small Bear Doesn't list one. Does anyone have a source for the correct part?

Thanks to Charlie and everyone for their help and input on this project.

[markusw]

CD4007 (IC5), CD4047 (IC6) and CD4049 (IC9) are unbuffered, yes?

Good question. I didn't take care bout that. Maybe I was just lucky in picking the right ones: I have HCF4007UBE, HEF4047BP and HEF4049BP and it works.

Is the MC34074 the best option for IC1, IC2 and IC3?

Are the supposed to have lower noise specs or are there other features that make their use favourable compared to e.g. TL074 and LM324?

Markus

[sfr]

CD4007 (IC5), CD4047 (IC6) and CD4049 (IC9) are unbuffered, yes?

I just grabbed what I have - MC14007UBCP, CD4047BCN, HCF4049UBE, and it works fine for me.

Is the MC34074 the best option for IC1, IC2 and IC3?

I just grabbed some LF347N, the first bag of quad op-amps I had kicking around.  It functions.

Sorry that doesn't really answer your question, but at least verifies some things that will function.

I'm having trouble finding a LM7815 in the correct package and Small Bear Doesn't list one. Does anyone have a source for the correct part?

My local radioshack still had some 15V regulators in stock, but I don't think it's a part they stock anymore.

Mouser part # KA7815ATU is the correct package and works.

[BMF Effects]

Thanks for the replies. Two more questions...

1) The parts list calls for a LM324 for IC 4. All the LM324's I've found are quads, yet the space on the PCB is for a dual. Am I missing something?

2) C25 does not appear on the BOM. Did I overlook it somewhere else in this thread or is it an omission?

Thanks.

[sfr]

Look in the build notes, it explains it (although I think the explanation for jumpering isn't quite right, although Charlie spells it out correctly to me earlier in this thread, I think a page back) C25 is to allow the Revision 3 setup of two caps in series, or for cap switching to set up for different LFO ranges.

I hadn't noticed it mentioned LM324.  Yeah, you just need a dual opamp in there.  Any old thing should work I believe, I used a 5532 because it's what I had.

[BMF Effects]

Look in the build notes, it explains it (although I think the explanation for jumpering isn't quite right, although Charlie spells it out correctly to me earlier in this thread, I think a page back) C25 is to allow the Revision 3 setup of two caps in series, or for cap switching to set up for different LFO ranges.

Completely missed it and found the build notes about five minutes ago. Sorry. 

[sfr]

Well, my father brought the o'scope over today.  It's an older ('65 was the date that I saw on one of the boards) Techtronix he got for free when they were disposing of it here at work.  (We both work at IBM in a manufacturing plant)  We hadn't actually tried it until today, so we didn't know if it worked - well, it worked decent until after a while the horizontal control died - fine range adjust functions, but the coarse one does nothing - seems like a pot may have gone (most of the pots in the thing where pretty "scratchy") So we didn't get much done.

But of note, before it died, I did get to read the signal off the test point/pin 13.  Seems the comments about it not being a 50/50 duty cycle are on the money - the signal out of there basically appears to be high at all times, with short downwards spikes to low that have little to no horizontal to them, as opposed to an up/down swinging square wave sort of thing.  I didn't get to see what the frequency coming off pins 10/11 look like before we lost the scope. (Most of the time we spent while it was still co-operating was my father showing me the basics of working the thing.

We had it (the scope) open, and I have to say, the craftsmanship on these things is really nice.  They really cram the stuff in there, but make it very servicable considering.

Not much time to play with the flanger today, hopefully the next couple of days.

[analog kid]

I'm having trouble finding a LM7815 in the correct package and Small Bear Doesn't list one. Does anyone have a source for the correct part?

    What package do you think you need? are You talking about a '220' 1A package reg? You just need a 15v regulator. Trust me it will function just fine with either a 100ma or 1Amp  , the amp may a be nice for the heat sink in case it gets a tad warm. 

 The 3403 quad thing is really just one of those mystery  " is there something that may be a bit better when using them in this circuit?"  things.  I believe there is NO need for going out of your way to get them OR waiting til you have them. I have used several Quads 074s, FET input Burr browns, ect. .. to absolutely no audible difference in any way on the circuit!
 
 Oh yeah Pin 13 is DEFINITELY not going to put out a 50% duty cycle . and it seems to vary with the clock freq as well.

 You need an LM324 for IC3 not IC4.  The dual package space you're talking about on your board is for a 1458 IC4

[BMF Effects]

...it turns out the usual trimpots from Smallbear I have in the parts drawer don't really want to fit this board, (now to trawl through the threads and find where Charlie posted a Mouser part # for trimpots . . . ) so I'll need to order some parts before I can finish this anyway.

These fit great... 858-72PR20KLF

~ Charlie

I just got my Mouser order in with the 858-72PRxxKLF trimpots. According to Mouser, their catalog references the wrong diagram and as a result ordering this part number will give you trimpots with the wrong pin spacing. Spec sheets verify that 858-72PMRxxKLF is the correct trimpot. The Mouser part numbers are 858-72PMR20KLF, 858-72PMR50KLF and 858-72PMR1KLF. Hope this helps.

[Horace]

If there is anyone in AUS building this from the PCB, these PIHER trimpots

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productResults.asp?whichpage=2&pagesize=10&keywords=&CATID=33&SUBCATID=786&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&SPECIAL=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=

only need the leads filed slightly and fit perfectly.

[moosapotamus]

Damn, BMF... you're right about the correct mouser p/n for the trimmers.
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/628/567.pdf

I looked at the table in the catalog wrong and thought that 858-72PMRxxxLF was only for the range of values from 10ohm to 2K and 858-72PRxxxLF was for values from 5K to 100K. So, I got the right ones for the 1K value. But, the wrong ones for the other values.

Thanks for pointing that out. At least I can verify that 858-72PMRxxxLF definately fits great.

~ Charlie

[BMF Effects]

Damn, BMF... you're right about the correct mouser p/n for the trimmers.
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/628/567.pdf

I looked at the table in the catalog wrong and thought that 858-72PMRxxxLF was only for the range of values from 10ohm to 2K and 858-72PRxxxLF was for values from 5K to 100K. So, I got the right ones for the 1K value. But, the wrong ones for the other values.

Thanks for pointing that out. At least I can verify that 858-72PMRxxxLF definately fits great.

~ Charlie

I'm just glad I was able to contribute something. 

[stobiepole]

Well, I've got mine up and running, which should stand as a testament to Charlie's design rather than my own abilities. I had a little fiddle around with the wet-dry pads and the external control pedal socket before it would go, and I've still got to get all the trims set right, but it's flanging. Woo hoo!