9V issue

[petemoore]

ok, well i went out and bought a new DC jack and a DMM.
 DMM comes in handy, indispensable, the DC jack '?'.. sounds like it still needs work..
 it is still having the same problem and the ground section is reading 9V, all the way from pin 4 on the ICs to the ground on the volume pot.
 
 Limiting testing at this point to 'pre-tests, no power, if there is continuity between the power rails, it must be lifted before power is applied, finding this 'erronious' connection [called a 'direct short] is another matter...which requires...anything from a quick de-bug to 'the list goes on...
 i was discussing this problem here for quite a while.  
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=57558.0
me and gaussmarkov have been trying to work on it together.
but yeah anyway the pedal still isnt turning on.
 the easiest way to put it is 'follow exactly what is shown on the schematic'...
 Ex. All grounds must be connected, jack sleeves...everything that is marked Gnd. on the schematic, nothing more, any 'stray' grounds must be lifted, preferrably before power is applied.
 None of the IC pins connect either, a simple set of tests in 'beep mode' for non-connects between pins:
 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 5/6, 6/7, 7/8.
 Clip black lead to ground. test all grounds, pin 4, then touch other points in the circuit looking for stray grounds.
 Test for NoN continuity between V+/-, before applying power.
 Apply power, test first for a large voltage difference between pin 4/or any ground tested to be connected to pin4 [like the jack lug or the box],...you should find very near the battery only's voltage, a slight drop because of normal current consumption, if the battery voltage drops much, either you got one bad battery [not likely] or your circuits' current consumption isn't correct.
 Note if battery voltage drops fast, it should hold to 1/10th volt difference after a few seconds of operation, for...at least 20 seconds, another indication of current consumption.
 If the circuit gulps power, disconnect power, continue to debug.
 Every mark on the schematic, little +signs on one side of polar capacitors, diodes, every mark must be mimic'd on your board.
 Other dogmatic approaches...with your new DMM !!!
 Test resistances from 'distant' points, this way you are also testing the connections between' at the same time.
 Test continuities...everywhere continuity is to be found on schem, including the bypass switch and jacks, power supplies...in all possible positions and scenarios [mono input jack in and out, etc.].
  Consider ditching the DC jack and input jack switching [use battery] until you can verify the circuit board as working, then test all possible scenarios related to each wire reconnected 1 at a time as you go along figureing out the PS wiring for the DC jack and input jack.
 

[DBDbadreligion]

this is being measured off of a 9.12V battery.
pin 7 on each IC is 8.53V

[DBDbadreligion]

oh by the way the only change i made since i got the circuit board back from gaussmarkov is that i changed it from a plastic enclosure to a metal one.  the enclosure is the enclosure used for my amps channel footswitch.  i dont know if that would effect anything or not, but i just thought i would let you know.  also i tested the jack grounds and if i test continuity from sleeve ground and put the other clip on the enclosure it doesnt beep.  but if i put it on the sleeve ground and put the other clip on where the screws for the enclosure cover is it beeps.

[hellwood]

i think you need to lose the switch from the equation for the moment.

[DBDbadreligion]

ok so just un-wire it?

[petemoore]

  Why not...just unsolder and isolate everything except a battery clip.
  First go for non-shorting of PS...
  you want the red wire [to circuit battery clips large terminal, which the battery's 'small terminal+' plugs in to,] to go only to pin 8, clip a DMM lead to the circuits battery clip large terminal [beep mode] and get it to beep when you touch pin 8 with the other lead.
  Do the same for ground.
  If you're using metal enclosure and jacks, the jack sleeves should read 'beep' as all grounds will when clipping a DMM lead to any ground. If the jack sleeve doesn't beep, connect a ground wire...perhaps you have an insulated jack...both jack sleeves are marked Gnd. so the sleeves of any mono cables plugged in the box should also read Gnd., pin4 etc...all/only points marked Gnd..
  When all grounds are connected, clipping a DMM lead to ground, all ground points should beep.
  So now you have V_ and V+ connected, and not shorting?
  Then...
  Try the power, read above about ways to detect abnormal current consumption...
  Clip a lead to Gnd. set meter to 20v range, proceed to take voltage measurements again of the opamps pins.

[DBDbadreligion]

alright so i dont need to hook up the LED for this process?

[hellwood]

alright so i dont need to hook up the LED for this process?

ha ha. thats a good one! sorry to say youve got bigger problems than your LED

[DBDbadreligion]

haha sorry for my beginnerness.

[hellwood]

hey! at least youre goin for it!!!!! wasnt trying to bum you out!

[DBDbadreligion]

hey! at least youre goin for it!!!!! wasnt trying to bum you out!

oh it's no problem, i just want to finish this damn thing.  i have been working on it for about a month now.

[hellwood]

i understand. is this pedal actually going to work for PUNK when you are finished?

[DBDbadreligion]

i understand. is this pedal actually going to work for PUNK when you are finished?

yeah i know and the funny thing is it's not for me, it's for my brother who plays bass.
hahaha

[Darren N]

You are using the wrong kind of DC jack:

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/DBDbadreligion/BBlender/?action=view&current=Picture022.jpg
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=92

The metal ones short to the case. They only work if you insulate them or use a plastic case.

You need the plastic ones:

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=93

[DBDbadreligion]

You are using the wrong kind of DC jack:

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/DBDbadreligion/BBlender/?action=view&current=Picture022.jpg
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=92

The metal ones short to the case. They only work if you insulate them or use a plastic case.

You need the plastic ones:

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=93

ok well i installed one just like that in my Russian Big Muff and if doesnt short out.

[DBDbadreligion]

if i were to put cardboard on the outside of the enclosure and the inside, and maybe some Teflon(PTFE) tape around the screw part of the jack would that insulate it?

[GibsonGM]

Anything will insulate it, DBD...problem is, eventually the insulation is likely to wear out, and you'll have a sudden short to ground that may fry the pedal.  And it won't happen at home, but on a gig!  It's well worth the $3 to buy a new jack.  Radio Shack has useable jacks, altho they require some modification to sit flush in a stompbox.  Smallbear's are the right ones.  Time now = better end result.   If you're determined to use the same jack, use your meter to assure there is no continuity between the case and the metal jack, and beat on it to be SURE it won't ever make contact.

Just use your powers of experimentation, nick, LOL...use the DMM to trace around jacks & switches, etc., to figure out how they work.  Plug in, test, plug out, test, etc.  It really pays off, when the lightbulb goes on and you realize what's happening inside them!  Some day it becomes simple, and you know just by looking what's up with things.  )  It's ok to be new, you will learn as you go.

~Mike 

[DBDbadreligion]

Anything will insulate it, DBD...problem is, eventually the insulation is likely to wear out, and you'll have a sudden short to ground that may fry the pedal.  And it won't happen at home, but on a gig!  It's well worth the $3 to buy a new jack.  Radio Shack has useable jacks, altho they require some modification to sit flush in a stompbox.  Smallbear's are the right ones.  Time now = better end result.   If you're determined to use the same jack, use your meter to assure there is no continuity between the case and the metal jack, and beat on it to be SURE it won't ever make contact.

Just use your powers of experimentation, nick, LOL...use the DMM to trace around jacks & switches, etc., to figure out how they work.  Plug in, test, plug out, test, etc.  It really pays off, when the lightbulb goes on and you realize what's happening inside them!  Some day it becomes simple, and you know just by looking what's up with things.  )  It's ok to be new, you will learn as you go.

~Mike 

yeah, i think what i may do is insulate it with electrical tape for now and then buy a new jack.

[DBDbadreligion]

  Why not...just unsolder and isolate everything except a battery clip.
  First go for non-shorting of PS...
  you want the red wire [to circuit battery clips large terminal, which the battery's 'small terminal+' plugs in to,] to go only to pin 8, clip a DMM lead to the circuits battery clip large terminal [beep mode] and get it to beep when you touch pin 8 with the other lead.
  Do the same for ground.
  If you're using metal enclosure and jacks, the jack sleeves should read 'beep' as all grounds will when clipping a DMM lead to any ground. If the jack sleeve doesn't beep, connect a ground wire...perhaps you have an insulated jack...both jack sleeves are marked Gnd. so the sleeves of any mono cables plugged in the box should also read Gnd., pin4 etc...all/only points marked Gnd..
  When all grounds are connected, clipping a DMM lead to ground, all ground points should beep.
  So now you have V_ and V+ connected, and not shorting?
  Then...
  Try the power, read above about ways to detect abnormal current consumption...
  Clip a lead to Gnd. set meter to 20v range, proceed to take voltage measurements again of the opamps pins.

alright i did this, it was an excellent idea.
i got like 8.9V on pin8 and o.oV on pin4 and around 4.0V on all the other pins.
but after i hooked everything back up to the dc jack, pin 4 got 9.0V of power again.

[DBDbadreligion]

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103611&cp=2032058.2032231.2032284&allCount=12&fbn=Cable+type%2FJacks&f=PAD%2FCable+Type%2FJacks&fbc=1&parentPage=family
will that jack work?