Author Topic: TZF - continued!  (Read 5483 times)

StephenGiles

TZF - continued!
« on: July 23, 2007, 01:34:11 PM »
http://www.4shared.com/file/20491740/5cc1118b/TZF.html

Not as good as I would have liked but the TZF is just about there - 2 x MN3004, with one clock modulated by an inverted LFO with respect to the other.
"I want my meat burned, like St Joan. Bring me pickles and vicious mustards to pierce the tongue like Cardigan's Lancers.".

foxfire

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2007, 01:50:25 PM »
if you don't like it can i have it?

jonathan perez

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2007, 02:16:29 PM »
very very cool  8)
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markusw

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2007, 03:01:46 PM »
 8) 8)

Quote
Insert Quote
if you don't like it can i have it?

Me too, me too  :icon_lol:

What is it  you don't like about it?

BTW, what clock range/delay range do you run the delay lines? Any chance for a schemo?  ;)

Regards,

Markus

Arn C.

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2007, 03:42:12 PM »
I think it sounds just great Stephen......

Peace!
Arn C.

StephenGiles

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2007, 04:13:52 PM »
8) 8)

Quote
Insert Quote
if you don't like it can i have it?

Me too, me too  :icon_lol:

What is it  you don't like about it?

BTW, what clock range/delay range do you run the delay lines? Any chance for a schemo?  ;)

Regards,

Markus

Thanks for the nice comments. It's not that I don't like it, it's not as strong as I would like.
I have already posted the schematics on another TZF thread which I can't find at the moment.
"I want my meat burned, like St Joan. Bring me pickles and vicious mustards to pierce the tongue like Cardigan's Lancers.".

stm

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2007, 10:32:37 PM »
Hi Stephen,

It sounds quite good.  Apparently you are adding the two delay line paths, which would give you flanging but not TZF.  In order to have TZF you need to subtract the output from one delay line from the other (or equivalently, invert one and then add).  This should give you the deep, mind blowing cancellation you are after.

mdh

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2007, 01:22:04 AM »
I think this is the post with the schematic: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=59065.msg461352#msg461352.  I must admit, though, that I can't really see what's going on without a little more context.  I.e., what's getting mixed at the output?  Counterswept delays, or counterswept flangers?  I think there's a difference, in that if you lift the dry signal (counterswept delays), it seems that you'll get a convincing symmetrical TZF, whereas if the dry signal is still there (counterswept flangers), maybe it's not so dramatic.  Is this what you're getting at, Sebastian?

That said, I like the sound clip.  But it doesn't quite seem like the oh-my-god-my-brain-is-turning-inside-out effect that I would expect of TZF.

StephenGiles

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2007, 04:44:23 AM »
Hi Stephen,

It sounds quite good.  Apparently you are adding the two delay line paths, which would give you flanging but not TZF.  In order to have TZF you need to subtract the output from one delay line from the other (or equivalently, invert one and then add).  This should give you the deep, mind blowing cancellation you are after.

Thanks Sebastian, I'll have to study the schematic and rewire as necessary, I can easily kill the dry signal.
"I want my meat burned, like St Joan. Bring me pickles and vicious mustards to pierce the tongue like Cardigan's Lancers.".

StephenGiles

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2007, 04:49:59 AM »
I think this is the post with the schematic: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=59065.msg461352#msg461352.  I must admit, though, that I can't really see what's going on without a little more context.  I.e., what's getting mixed at the output?  Counterswept delays, or counterswept flangers?  I think there's a difference, in that if you lift the dry signal (counterswept delays), it seems that you'll get a convincing symmetrical TZF, whereas if the dry signal is still there (counterswept flangers), maybe it's not so dramatic.  Is this what you're getting at, Sebastian?

That said, I like the sound clip.  But it doesn't quite seem like the oh-my-god-my-brain-is-turning-inside-out effect that I would expect of TZF.

Yes, counterswept is the word I have been trying to find! You're right in that the "oh-my-god-my-brain-is-turning-inside-out effect" is not there yet. Well, I just played with the controls until I got what appears in the sound sample - it had been gathering dust since about 1990! Feel free to mod the schematic  - Paint is good for that!
"I want my meat burned, like St Joan. Bring me pickles and vicious mustards to pierce the tongue like Cardigan's Lancers.".

stm

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2007, 09:51:06 PM »
Stephen,

Looking at the Hyperflanger schems I notice they have everything you need to achieve the TZF.  Proper setting would be:

1) Turn down the DRY LEVEL pot to kill entirely the dry signal
2) Turn up the EFFECT BALANCE pot up entirely
3) Toggle the PHASE REVERSE switch back and forth and you should identify which is the TZF position

QSQCaito

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Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2007, 10:26:07 PM »
Sorry but, did a search and couln't find what does TZF means, or should sound like. Could anybody explain :)?

Thanks a lot!

Bye bye

DAC
D.A.C

magikker

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2007, 12:56:51 AM »
TZF = Through Zero Flanging...

It sounds like this... http://analogman.com/tzff.htm

Not to say that the pedal being talking about is this pedal.. but this is the only TZF that comes to mind...

StephenGiles

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2007, 05:08:31 AM »
The WEM Hyperflanger was in fact a rackmount unit, in one of many piles of papers at home I have a sales flyer.
 
Stephen,

Looking at the Hyperflanger schems I notice they have everything you need to achieve the TZF.  Proper setting would be:

1) Turn down the DRY LEVEL pot to kill entirely the dry signal
2) Turn up the EFFECT BALANCE pot up entirely
3) Toggle the PHASE REVERSE switch back and forth and you should identify which is the TZF position

Thanks Sebastian - buen diiiiiiiiiiiiia, (hotel cleaner in BA!)  I think I'm still getting dry signal at the output even with the dry level pot turned off. More anon.
"I want my meat burned, like St Joan. Bring me pickles and vicious mustards to pierce the tongue like Cardigan's Lancers.".

Bernardduur

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2007, 06:00:36 AM »
Isn't TZF impossible pedalwise as the copy of the orginal had to come sooner then the original signal?
Am learning something new every day here

SquareLight | MySpace account

StephenGiles

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2007, 08:04:29 AM »
It's there in the EH Hoax.
"I want my meat burned, like St Joan. Bring me pickles and vicious mustards to pierce the tongue like Cardigan's Lancers.".

puretube

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2007, 08:23:32 AM »
Isn't TZF impossible pedalwise as the copy of the orginal had to come sooner then the original signal?

the "copy of the original" (the usually modulated delay signal) comes sooner or later than the "original"
(the "dry" signal),
`cause this so-called dry signal is a fake-original: it is delayed itself (usually fixed),
such that it looks as if the delayed copy is either coming earlier or later...

Bernardduur

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2007, 10:13:53 AM »
Isn't TZF impossible pedalwise as the copy of the orginal had to come sooner then the original signal?

the "copy of the original" (the usually modulated delay signal) comes sooner or later than the "original"
(the "dry" signal),
`cause this so-called dry signal is a fake-original: it is delayed itself (usually fixed),
such that it looks as if the delayed copy is either coming earlier or later...

Very well thought of..........
Am learning something new every day here

SquareLight | MySpace account

magikker

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2007, 11:14:39 AM »
Is the amount of delay on the dry signal noticable or is it somewhere in the 5ms range?

StephenGiles

Re: TZF - continued!
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2007, 04:22:23 PM »
WhatI also need to try us disconnecting the modulation from one of the BBD clocks.
"I want my meat burned, like St Joan. Bring me pickles and vicious mustards to pierce the tongue like Cardigan's Lancers.".