B.Y.O.C. vs. GGG

[mars_bringer_of_war]

Go with whoever is cheaper, it's your money.

[R.G.]

Go with whoever is cheaper, it's your money.

... always bearing in mind that price is only an estimate of true worth.

[mars_bringer_of_war]

Go with whoever is cheaper, it's your money.

... always bearing in mind that price is only an estimate of true worth.

Right, and if both gentlemen in question have similar reputations, go for price.

[QSQCaito]

Go with whoever is cheaper, it's your money.

The cheap might end being more expensive at the long term.

[bumblebee]

JD's a cool guy and i love his site, if it weren't for ggg and this site i dare say i wouldn't be into effects building.

GGG was invaluable to me at the beginning when i couldn't read a schematic,its got a lot of fun projects there in a very readable format.I don't bother with costs,if i like something i'll make an effort to get it regardless of cost but i think his prices seem good enough.

BYOC seems generic to me, bland and...?...meh, it doesn't interest me,it leaves no room for mistakes thus learning seems limited as its like a dot2dot drawing.I cant see one advancing much if they stuck with byoc builds all the time.It reminds me of a model U-Boat ya get in a box...A connects to B,B connects to C1 and so on.

Between Arons store,GGG and smallbear a beginner can get everything they need,build a working effect and develop some skills at the same time.

If its just a one off build you're after,then go byoc.

[jonathan perez]

bring your own coffee

[karter2000]

GGG all the way.  JD helped me very much with my first project, a 3-knob germaninum Tone Bender using a PCB ordered from him.

When I decided that the Jumbo Tone Bender was more for me, he agreed to do a custom PCB for me, as it was not listed on his site.  He then helped me with the layout and all the off-board connections.

I've must have sent him a thousand emails, and he's answered them all!

Lyle

[Krinor]

Go with whoever is cheaper, it's your money.

... always bearing in mind that price is only an estimate of true worth.

Right, and if both gentlemen in question have similar reputations, go for price.

GGG is cheaper than BYOC.

BYOC carries a few kits that GGG doesn't have (yet). But in my experience you can actually suggest kits for JD, and he'll put them on his site. I did that with the Phase 45. I suggested to him that the Phase 100 was maybe a bit tough for a beginner and that maybe the old DOD 201 phaser would be a good alternative. He replied the next day saying he would look into it. Within a month he had the Phase 45 (which is very similar to the DOD) kit up on his site, and when I ordered it he sent it to me first class. JD is simply a great guy. He replies personally to your mail and his kits and service are always excellent. I have ordered 6 kits and some PCB's from him and allthough I'm beginning to look at my self as an intermediate builder I will continue to order kits from GGG simply because I find it very pleasant to get everything I need ready to solder and sorted out in neat little plastic bags.  

[caress]

i think both are pretty great.  i started with byoc becuase it is a bit more paint-by-numbers and less actual thinking, but if you're creative and/or ambitious, you can really learn a lot from a byoc kit and make it distinctly your own.  i made the vb-2 clone, but i used my own enclosure with lots of mods that i discovered on my own...a great learning experience altogether.  ggg is probably a little more community based and a bit less $ based...i've only bought the ad-3208 board from them and i haven't been able to get it to work... , although i think it may be one of my ics...?  anyways, ggg has a great deal of useful information and helpful links, so when it comes down to it, my vote is more or less for ggg.  both are great, though....

[petemoore]

  I know all the bugs are worked out at GGG on a regular basis, as needed...ie I think you'll have a smaller chance of finding an error on say a schematic, or reversed polarity LED, like on 2knob Bender..
  I recognized the LED 'error' and misvalued resistor, so it only took me a few minutes to verify my findings, a very small complaint.
  Both provide excellent quality products, the BYOC phaser had a nice surprize depth mod knob/pot, JD is favored here because he's a long time member/major contributor, he has helped work through many of the circuits, providing information everyone uses.
  I would guess most of the effects kit suppliers have at least heard of DIYSB forum, whether they hang out, kibetz or contribute is debatable [again, I guess]...but I would guess some of the strong leaning toward JD is because he's a forum contributor, not that I think anyone who doesn't/isn't should be less liked as a result.
  BYOC as far as I know doesn't provide much input at the forum, except for posts like mine last week for tonebender help.
  At this point I think we've covered a lot [most of the?] ground on circuits in question as far as circuit possiblilites [concerning the kits available], JD will always have the seniority/experience [games not over, but the 'scoring' has slowed very much] , simply because when all the 'stuff' on the circuits was being sorted, he was contributing...not to say something else couldn't 'be contributed, but much of the ground has been covered, not a reasonable cause [imo] to hold disregard to BYOC for not being around at that time.

[Processaurus]

Its great to see GGG is starting to get their PCBs professionally made, with the solder mask, silkscreen and plated through holes.

[dano12]

My name is Dano and I am a BYOC fanboy.

BYOC got me into pedal building. I ran across the site and ordered a kit (long before GGG offered kits). I screwed it up nine ways to Sunday and Ketih was patient with my idiot questions and finally got me to the point where I had a working Fuzz. From there I was hooked--I ordered more kits and started building at every free moment. Kits became mod projects. Mod projects became lunatic boxes like the Fuzzlab (built entirely with BYOC kits and GGG boards by the way). And the projects became a passion. Email and forum posts from Keith kept me going. Over time the BYOC product lineup and forum activity have increased to the point that there is an active BYOC sub-culture. Kits based on great components, the best PCBs I've seen, and incredible support.

Keith also seems to want to push the envelope: the new dual pedal, the upcoming 600msec analog delay, a very tweakable flanger, all these things are very cool and show that BYOC puts a lot of work into the projects.

So yes, I am a big BYOC fanboy and proud of it

And I also love GGG:

There is no disputing GGG's contribution to the DIY community--a collection of work and effort that spans years. GGG is the undisputed king of the DIY/Project/Kit world and J.D. has been tireless in his support of the community. I've built many projects from GGG, bought PCBS and entire kits. Great products and great service.

So my fondness for Keith and BYOC in no way reflects poorly on GGG--it isn't a binary choice. Both are great organizaitons run by fellows who are passionate about what they do and tireless in their efforts to feed our DIY addictions.

We are lucky to have both.

[R.G.]

BYOC product lineup...the best PCBs I've seen

Look harder.

BYOC boards may be well manufactured, but the layouts are obviously done by someone with low experience with PCBs. That doesn't mean they won't work, just that they're larger than necessary, use double sided traces where one side would be fine, and may have grounding or signal routing issues, although that last is a minimal issue on small boards.

The use of a double sided board is problematical with a beginner doing the assembly because it is much harder for a beginner to unsolder a double sided board when (not if) they have to do that.

J.D. (funny, I always like people who use initials for a name...  ) was making his own boards, I believe - patterning, etching, shearing and drilling. He's moved into commercial manufacture now, and with commercial manufacture, you get silkscreen, solder mask, and double sided by just checking the box on the order form.

Look deeper.

[dano12]

BYOC product lineup...the best PCBs I've seen

Look harder.

BYOC boards may be well manufactured, but the layouts are obviously done by someone with low experience with PCBs. That doesn't mean they won't work, just that they're larger than necessary, use double sided traces where one side would be fine, and may have grounding or signal routing issues, although that last is a minimal issue on small boards.

The use of a double sided board is problematical with a beginner doing the assembly because it is much harder for a beginner to unsolder a double sided board when (not if) they have to do that.

J.D. (funny, I always like people who use initials for a name...  ) was making his own boards, I believe - patterning, etching, shearing and drilling. He's moved into commercial manufacture now, and with commercial manufacture, you get silkscreen, solder mask, and double sided by just checking the box on the order form.

Look deeper.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. BYOC boards are bigger than the could be, but that sure made it easy for a newb like me to work on then. I had to desolder and re-solder many many times when I was getting started, and the BYOC boards held up to an amazing amount of abuse. I can't say the same for homemade boards.

[theundeadelvis]

This thread affected my opinion of BYOC: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=52613.0

[pandadandan]

Don't Tonepad get a look in?

I'm debating whom to give my cash to in regards to PCBs. 

Are GGG / Tonepad / BYOC pcbs all solder masked?

[Krinor]

BYOC product lineup...the best PCBs I've seen

Look harder.

BYOC boards may be well manufactured, but the layouts are obviously done by someone with low experience with PCBs. That doesn't mean they won't work, just that they're larger than necessary, use double sided traces where one side would be fine, and may have grounding or signal routing issues, although that last is a minimal issue on small boards.

The use of a double sided board is problematical with a beginner doing the assembly because it is much harder for a beginner to unsolder a double sided board when (not if) they have to do that.

J.D. (funny, I always like people who use initials for a name...  ) was making his own boards, I believe - patterning, etching, shearing and drilling. He's moved into commercial manufacture now, and with commercial manufacture, you get silkscreen, solder mask, and double sided by just checking the box on the order form.

Look deeper.

What do you mean by look deeper ? Do you have some secret pcb source that you could share with us ?

[Plinky]

My two cents...

While the BYOC kits look nice, they are a bit expensive compared to the GGG kits, which are almost identical. I haven't bought the GGG kits, but I have used the circuit boards and they work great. Some of them still look homemade, but the quality is there and I've never had a problem with them (my pedal building abilities are another story ). Never had a problem with shipping from GGG as well.

[theundeadelvis]

BYOC product lineup...the best PCBs I've seen

Look harder.

BYOC boards may be well manufactured, but the layouts are obviously done by someone with low experience with PCBs. That doesn't mean they won't work, just that they're larger than necessary, use double sided traces where one side would be fine, and may have grounding or signal routing issues, although that last is a minimal issue on small boards.

The use of a double sided board is problematical with a beginner doing the assembly because it is much harder for a beginner to unsolder a double sided board when (not if) they have to do that.

J.D. (funny, I always like people who use initials for a name...  ) was making his own boards, I believe - patterning, etching, shearing and drilling. He's moved into commercial manufacture now, and with commercial manufacture, you get silkscreen, solder mask, and double sided by just checking the box on the order form.

Look deeper.

What do you mean by look deeper ? Do you have some secret pcb source that you could share with us ?

Ummmm, I think he explain what he meant pretty clearly in the post?

[Krinor]

Maybe he did. But I'm slow. And also I am norwegian.