Author Topic: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread  (Read 36273 times)

electricstorm

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2013, 10:52:10 AM »
Digi2t, nice build thread!

The box looks pretty neat too. I also see someone asked about the BC549's being used instead of BC549C, but the question wasn't really addressed. A substitute was mentioned (2N5089's). I ordered BC549C, but received BC549's instead. They seem to work OK. Would like to try the C's in there though to see if there's a real difference. Not sure if I have any 2N5089's laying around or not. If I do, I'll try them out.

Hopefully, I'm getting to the point where I can entertain some mods/ideas for mods. I'm better at reverse engineering than design, so I would need a little assistance there.

Jim

electricstorm

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2013, 12:51:17 PM »
The wiring has been verified and the project is moving along. Still in the debugging stages and waiting for a few more parts to come in. The I/P Gain issue of being too weak may be due to the wrong transistor being used. I had ordered BC549C's but received BC549's. After consulting with Govmnt_Lacky and Toneman, it was discovered that the BC549C has an Hfe of 600 while the BC549 has an Hfe of 200. This is most likely the cause of the weak gain. I will order the BC549C's and try that in the flanger then post the results later.

Here are the wiring diagrams:

Main and Daughter Board wiring


http://imageshack.us/a/img585/7077/maindaughterboardwiring.png


Main Board Jack wiring


http://imageshack.us/a/img593/1106/mainboardjackwiring.png


Main Board Switch Wiring


http://imageshack.us/a/img854/8779/mainboardswitchwiring.png

Better images are in the dropbox folder (link is in my signature below)

Jim

electricstorm

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2013, 04:45:31 PM »
To update everyone, here is the latest on the Lovetone Flanger.

I used a 1N4148 for D2 and tested the Gate/Trig jack's function. It works just as described in the users manual.

After trying as many combinations of "Roll Your Own" vactrols as I could (some of my LDR's are still not here), actual vactrols seem to work best for the tremolo effect of the pedal. The VTL5C3 works best for the main board, however, it really sucks on the daughter board. When using the vactrols on the daughter board, it produces a ticking sound when the LFO is set to the triangle wave output and a severe thumping sound when the LFO uses the square wave output. This only seems to happen when the "Time" switch is engaged (allowing you to use the delay or daughter board for flanging/chorus/vibe). I have tried several "roll your own" vactrols with some success, just haven't hit the correct combination yet. I'll let you know when I stumble upon a combination that works here. The square wave output produces thumping with or without the delay engaged and the manual mentions a thumping sound when switching the LFO from triangle to square wave so I assume this is normal. Maybe Lacesensor can comment on this as he has the original flanger.

But for now it looks like VTL5C3's will be used on the main board in my build. A close second is the diffused green LED with an LDR with a resistance of light 10K, Dark 20M for LDR1/LED1 and LDR2/LED2. For LDR3/LED5, this just turns on/off the "Regen" portion of the board when the "Time" switch is engaged. When the "Time" switch is off, the LDR blocks the signal from going through the regen circuit (Action and Reaction controls). Either a VTL5C3 work fine here and the VTL5C2 works ok. A diffused green LED and and LDR works good here also. An LDR with a resistance of light 10K, Dark at least 1M but Dark 10M ~ 20M works better. This will have to be selected for your own personal tastes for the Regen circuit. The dark 1M seemed to allow slight regen bleed-through into the signal when off, but was minimal. I believe the idea was to cut if off entirely.

The BBD's from Smallbear seem to work better than the BBD's from Polida. While the one's from Polida did seem to work ok (provided you get a set that are not dead!!), the range in delay was less than the Smallbear BBD's and all BBD's seemed to have less delay time than my original Panasonic BBD's (MN3207) Doesn't seem to matter which clock IC was used (MN3102, V3201D, BL3102). All clock IC's seemed to work with the other BBD's with no noticeable difference in sound. However, the Cool Audio BBD's did seem to work better than the BBD's from China that Smallbear sells. But overall, both seemed to be acceptable. I did have one BBD that seems to cut in and out (BL3207 from China) but no problem with the Cool Audio BBD's.

For those interested in how the flanger works, here is a block diagram for you to look at.



Explanation from the manual:

(Block diagram is simplified and not necessarily theoretically correct)

Input signal level is adjusted by the I/P Gain control, which also affects the bypass level. The signal is then split into two main paths: (a) straight path which comes out at Space(d) Out/Mono (via Space mod) and (b) delay path which goes via the FX loop (normalized if nothing is connected) into the delay line. The Reaction control (center-zero/off) sets the level of Regen/Feedback which is fed back in before the FX loop. The FX loop is therefore included in the Regen path (c). The delay path then goes via the Time footswitch and out at Time Out at a level which is determined by the Action control (center-zero/off). When the Time footswitch is "off" the delay path is bypassed completely and the output of the I/P Gain section goes straight to Time Out as shown by (d). The LFO can be used to modulate the delay time at an amount set by the Depth control and/or the straight path to create Space mod  (at a fixed amount if selected by the Space footswitch). If nothing is connected to Time Out, it's output will automatically be routed to Space(d) Out/Mono as shown by (e) and summed with Space mod to create a mono output.

According to the manual, you need to understand the above explanation in order to understand how the controls work.

Jim

electricstorm

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2013, 06:45:50 PM »
Got a new set of boards for the flanger that I had revised to accommodate the components that have to be hand soldered to other components on the main board. There were two areas that were revised, both in the lower right-hand corner of the board. I got a chance to dry fit the components to check for clearence with other components and the fit was very good! Once I get a final bug worked out on the original build i can post the full project and the new boards will allow you to solder components to the board without worry of doing that awkward soldering of the factory added mods.

The build docs are coming along slowly.... Hope to have this wrapped up soon. Will post some more pictures soon.

Jim

electricstorm

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #64 on: March 20, 2013, 11:47:30 PM »
Sorry to have been away so long, but life gets in the way sometimes.

The Lovetone ? Flanger is finally finished. I am working on the build docs and I need to correct the schematic and one wiring diagram (it was verified, but I made an error when I posted it).

So, hopefully soon, those that are interested can build their own clone of the Lovetone Flanger. I have a Wobulator in for repair that I hope to clone next.

Jim

Strategy

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2013, 01:09:56 AM »
way to go, very exciting, I hope to build one!
strategy

Sorry to have been away so long, but life gets in the way sometimes.

The Lovetone ? Flanger is finally finished. I am working on the build docs and I need to correct the schematic and one wiring diagram (it was verified, but I made an error when I posted it).

So, hopefully soon, those that are interested can build their own clone of the Lovetone Flanger. I have a Wobulator in for repair that I hope to clone next.

Jim

electricstorm

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2013, 02:57:36 PM »
More progress was made on the boards. There has been one more revision to the boards that is more consistent with the original board labeling for components and wires that connect to the board. Also, everything I'll be posting has been verified and any diagrams that have been posted earlier should be ignored.

This is not the latest revised board, but it does contain the revisions made for the hand soldered components of the factory mods. There is now an area on the board to place these components on the PCB.



Here is a picture of the components that are now board mounted.




Corrected wiring diagrams:

Main/Daughter Board Wiring


Main Board and Jack Wiring:


Main Board and Switch Wiring:


I'll post more later.

Jim

electricstorm

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #67 on: May 18, 2013, 11:13:52 PM »
Hello everyone, sorry to have been away for so long. I had some computer problems which are now resolved.

Now to the good news.  :icon_biggrin:

The Lovetone ? Flange has now been successfully cloned and the build docs are now available. It is called the ! No Name Flange. To get the build docs, just click on the link in my signature below and download the build docs and the user's manual (if you need it). I currently have no way of making and posting sound clips, but a user on Mad Bean Pedals forum may post some soon (his username is AlanP and he has already made and boxed his project).

I hope to hear from those that build the clone and get their feedback on the project. I have someone that will make boards if you would like a set. I have to work out the cost with them for making the boards, but they most likely will be in the $30 - $40 range. The enclosure used was a 1550G and accommodates the project nicely with a little room left over.

There is one very minor error on the build docs, but it does not affect the project. The black and blue wires going from "J" and "GND" are shown one way on the Main/Daughter board wiring and shown reversed on the Main and Switch wiring for the Loopage switch and Loopage LED. It doesn't really matter which way you wire it as it only supplies a ground path for the yellow LED when the Loopage is engaged. So it will work either way.

I hope that you enjoy the ? Flanger clone!!

electricstorm

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2013, 03:45:57 PM »
Alanp over at mad bean pedals forum graciously gave me permission to post his demo videos of the
Lovetone ? Flange V1 Clone (the clone is officially called the ! No Name Flange) and I wanted to give
him credit and thank him for allowing me to post these videos to another forum.



Quote
Got my man Ironbird13 to do some video for me. This is the second one, with the Lady muff running into it (plus expression
pedal.) We tried stereo, sounds funky, especially since one amp was a 2204 JCM800 (80s marshall) and the other a 5E8A
(50s Fender tweed.) The FX loop... oscillated with the Lady in it, and was a bit muddy with the Dub Dweller (but then that's a
dark, lo-fi delay.)



Quote
Clean flange, no expression, no loop, nothing before or after (IIRC, the reverb might get turned on.)

Now you can hear what the clone sounds like!

Thanks again Alanp

Jim

electricstorm

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2013, 10:03:58 AM »
I have received a lot of email about the ! No Name Flange (Lovetone ? Flange clone) and it has been all good
so far. Thanks everyone for the compliments! I hope more of you build the clone and report back as I am
interested in hearing about your experiences with it.

I want to thank AlanP again for telling me about a substitute transformer that will fit the board without any
modifications and is cheaper than the OEP1200 that was used. The transformer is a Bourns LM-NP-1001-B1L
and can be purchased at Mouser for $1.78. The OEP1200 was $3.98. I'm all for finding cheaper alternatives!

Jim
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 10:33:07 AM by electricstorm »

hangingmonkey

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2013, 07:35:47 AM »
Hey, great thread and much respect to all those who contributed into the tracing and development of this beast. 
You can add me to the list of people who are going to take a crack at building this.

Im gathering the parts and was wondering if ebay was a dodgy source for mn chips.  I know theres a load of fake mn3005s out there but does the same apply for the 3102s?

I was thinking about ordering either:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1P-PANASONIC-MN3207-1P-MN3102-CHORUS-FLANGER-BBD-IC-/360300891762?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e39b4e72

or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MN3102-Panasonic-CLOCK-GENERATOR-DRIVER-CMOS-LSI-FOR-BBD-IC-/181175289707?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item2a2ee3876b

Any thoughts?
Cheers.
 :icon_cool:

Govmnt_Lacky

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2013, 08:33:38 AM »
@HM

When it comes to eBay, you take your chances. Good prices but..... you could get some bad parts.

If you have the time, you can always give it a try. Ask around for reputable sellers.

If you want to save time and breathe easy.... go to a reputable source.

Good Luck. THIS PEDAL KILLS!  :icon_twisted:
A Veteran is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America
for an amount of ‘up to and including my life.’

hangingmonkey

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2013, 06:31:58 PM »
Thanks Patrick Bateman. 

So, Im half way through building this thing.  I was initially planning to fit it in a metal enclosure but on a whim I bought a clear plastic box instead as I thought it would look cool, a 1591E I think .

Anyway, I just realised that I wont get the shielding from the plastic box like I would with the aluminium. Does that matter?  I guess it would seeing that the project needs some shielded wires.  Any advice?

Cheers

Govmnt_Lacky

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2013, 06:40:12 PM »
Anyway, I just realised that I wont get the shielding from the plastic box like I would with the aluminium. Does that matter?  I guess it would seeing that the project needs some shielded wires.  Any advice?

A plastic enclosure could go either way. The smart money would be to use an aluminum enclosure though  ;)

Is the plastic enclosure transparent in any way? If it is, you WILL run into problems with ambient light hitting the LDRs. Unless you plan to use sealed vactrols OR enclose the LDRs in something.
A Veteran is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America
for an amount of ‘up to and including my life.’

alanp

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2013, 07:43:38 PM »
Biasing it is pretty cool, actually, with the bare board sitting on the bench (unless you're smart, unlike me, and put a trimmer in you can adjust from the track side while the board is mounted) with ALL the LED's pulsating in the darkness :)

newperson

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #75 on: September 01, 2013, 02:57:20 AM »
Neat build.  Congrats on the journey and props for putting up the build docs!

hangingmonkey

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2013, 08:00:06 PM »
Anyway, I just realised that I wont get the shielding from the plastic box like I would with the aluminium. Does that matter?  I guess it would seeing that the project needs some shielded wires.  Any advice?

A plastic enclosure could go either way. The smart money would be to use an aluminum enclosure though  ;)

Is the plastic enclosure transparent in any way? If it is, you WILL run into problems with ambient light hitting the LDRs. Unless you plan to use sealed vactrols OR enclose the LDRs in something.

Yep, the enclosure is transparent, I thought the PCB would look cool in a clear box.  Still, I'll go with the metal one then. 
Where did you get the LDRs from. Im planning to use vactrols on the main board but ldrs on the the daughter board. 

Incidenally, it was the flange builds that you and alanp did that inspired me to build my own.

Govmnt_Lacky

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2013, 08:16:20 PM »
@HM

I used the same LDRs for all of the positions. On the main board, you need to use DIFFUSED GREEN LEDs. On the daughter board it MUST be a HIGH BRIGHTNESS WATER CLEAR GREEN LED.

As for the LDRs, I "believe" I used somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-30K Light and 20M dark.

I will try to get a part number soon for you  ;)
A Veteran is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America
for an amount of ‘up to and including my life.’

alanp

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #78 on: September 01, 2013, 09:27:03 PM »
I'm amazingly unpicky, but bog standard diffused green seemed to work nearly everywhere for me, with 20k/20M ldr's.

hangingmonkey

Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
« Reply #79 on: November 19, 2013, 02:53:38 AM »
So, im getting no sound with the pedal on but clean signal is going to amp when bypassed.

I suspect that my mn3102 is duff - measuring 0v on all 8 pins so ill order a replacement.

Would a duff 3102 account for the lack of signal when the pedal is activated?