Author Topic: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?  (Read 10314 times)

slideman82

MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« on: May 08, 2008, 01:53:17 PM »
I wanted to try this, but... is it worth? Just for the sound, I mean, nevemind the $ or butthours/chair!
Do the STD-1 sound better?

Where can I find some audio demos, if they exist? Also I want to know if someone really build one of this.

I like how the fuzz sounds through a SS reverb (I tried on some new Chinese made Marshall with digital effects, and also a DD-2 set on 200 ms).

 ;D
Hey! Turk-&-J.D.! And J.D.!

Mark Hammer

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2008, 03:14:17 PM »
I currently have a board mostly populated, but not wired up.  It is the ETI solid-state reverb project, using the MN3011 ( http://www.synthdiy.com/show/file/?id=873 ).  While the STD-1 does use the same chip, it is configured very differently, and is intended to produce a multi-tap chorus and flanger, rather than being clocked slowly enough to generate audible echo-repeats.

If you know anyone with a Gallien-Kruger amp with on-board solid-state reverb, they use a 3011.  I've never knowingly heard one myself.  Somebody posted something here a while back about a DOD pedal that had two MN3011s on the board.  I think it is this one: http://filters.muziq.be/model/dod/fx/fx45

In theory, an MN3011-based device set for audible delay will deliver a more diffuse sound than a simpler analog delay because the taps are not harmonically related to each other..

dirk

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2008, 04:07:33 PM »
I have a Analogue Systems RS-310 module, witch has the MN3011 chip in it. I love the sound of it.
It is the most versatile bbd chip out there.
Here's a very nice schematic of the MN3011, witch makes the most from this chip. Chorus, flanging, reverb, echo its all in there. Its in dutch, but the schematic is not that complicated.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/nyibew

puretube

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2008, 04:49:01 PM »
Here`s an Italian version...  :icon_biggrin:

StephenGiles

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2008, 04:56:23 PM »
Ah, I was listening to a Richard Thompson gig on the way to work this morning and he did a song in Italian - OK, but this was medieval Italian - worse, and colloquial medieval Italian!!!!
"Gods teeth", he muttered, "if these thing bite one will be singing soprano".

Mark Hammer

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2008, 05:01:05 PM »
Thanks for that.  I can't view it at work right now, but I look forward to downloading it later tonight.

Jeorge "Mr. Huge" Tripps was kind enough to give me a 3011 a few years back, and I was hoping to develop some kind of a scaled-back version of the old A/DA STD-1.  As mentioned above, I plugged it into a board for the ETI Solid State Reverb to hear how it sounded.  Still waiting to hear that, but all this talk of it has re-awakened my interest in working on the chorus again and sticking the MN3011 in THAT socket instead.

What I had sort of envisioned was something where alternate taps were channel-assigned in pairs, with a toggle for flipping, and a level pot for that pair.  So, taps 1 and 2 could be assigned left/right or right/left, and same for taps 3/4 (5/6 was set to left/right default).  Three dual-ganged pots would set how much of the respective taps was blended in with straight signal.  Finally, a master dry-feed switch would let you lift the dry signal and get multi-tap vibrato.  In principle, flicking a switch or two, and turning a knob or two, could get you dry+tap1+tap6 on the left output jack.  A simple clock-cap change/switch like what you see in the Zombie Chorus could get you multi-tap chous or multi-tap flanging (though sweep range would be limited).  The idea was to squeeze the most I could out of maybe 5 pots and 3 or 4 toggles.  It would certainly not be able to nail everything the STD-1 could, but it would fit in a smaller space and be able to cover much of the same territory.

slideman82

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2008, 06:40:05 PM »
If you know anyone with a Gallien-Kruger amp with on-board solid-state reverb, they use a 3011.  I've never knowingly heard one myself.  Somebody posted something here a while back about a DOD pedal that had two MN3011s on the board.  I think it is this one: http://filters.muziq.be/model/dod/fx/fx45

I already have a copy of the ETI reverb, but maybe I'll make my own PCB (I like it that way, there's nothing like home-made food!). I'm gonna search for that FX45 schematic, looks interesting, and it seems to be an old pedal, maybe could be found for a few bucks on EBAY.
I've never seen one of those Gallien Kruger schematics, but I had thought in something similar for one of my future SS amps.
Hey! Turk-&-J.D.! And J.D.!

StephenGiles

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2008, 05:47:48 AM »
I made the ETI reverb back then - useless was being kind!!
"Gods teeth", he muttered, "if these thing bite one will be singing soprano".

slideman82

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2008, 06:44:26 PM »
I made the ETI reverb back then - useless was being kind!!

Sorry, I can't get it right! Did u like it or not?
Hey! Turk-&-J.D.! And J.D.!

Mark Hammer

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2008, 08:20:35 AM »
He didn't like it.

Keep in mind that the MN3011 was an intermediate stage between normal delay chips (which do not emulate the multiple reflections of true reverb at all) and digital reverb.  It did not take long before digital reverb started to be not only better than what the MN3011 could do, but more cost-effective as well.

I still think the MN3011 is a fascinating chip that warrants further exploration, but I imagine those who seek a lush reverb wash will likely find themselves disappointed by it.  I will note that the ETI project has a number of shortcomings to it, not the least of which is that "early" and "late" reflections have the same bandwidth; something that does not, or at least rarely, occurs in the real world.

slideman82

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2008, 08:35:29 AM »
Mmmm sure I'm gonna give it a try... maybe will sound good to my ears. Effects are like books, no one can say if they're good or bad, just try them, and then tell your opinion! That happened to me with Don Quijote (it's an excellent book, not boring in any way!) and with the TS (first time I plugged it I said "Is this all? What a crap!").
Hey! Turk-&-J.D.! And J.D.!

StephenGiles

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2008, 09:23:16 AM »
I made the ETI reverb back then - useless was being kind!!

Sorry, I can't get it right! Did u like it or not?

Mark is correct, The ETI 3011 reverb I found to be quite pathetic.TI were mean with their payments to designers so nothing of any substance ever appeared in the magazine, that is to say nothing other than "simple" circuits ever appeared, with the possible exception of anything designed by Tim Orr. I suspect that he had a certain amount of clout due to his company's advertising account (Powertran).

I have heard an excellent reverb using 3 of these chips and a lot (and I do mean a lot) of supporting circuitry to carefully utilise the properties of this chip. I cannot for the life of me remember who designed and built it, possibly a company based in the Seven Sisters Road near to the Tube station - not an area I would wish to visit these days!

"Gods teeth", he muttered, "if these thing bite one will be singing soprano".

slideman82

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2008, 09:33:42 AM »
Alrighty, then! Thanks for that opinion! This news are to me like a small piece of bone to a palenthologist. 3 of these? That would be a uge reverb... thanks!
Hey! Turk-&-J.D.! And J.D.!

slideman82

Re: MN3011 reverb... how does it sound?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2008, 08:16:06 PM »
Well, my give up, I can't find one of those Gallien Krueger schemos... sounds like Krupp Steel to me!
Hey! Turk-&-J.D.! And J.D.!