Author Topic: Orange Squeezer - 2N5457 Equivalent (2n5484)  (Read 25257 times)

chromesphere

Orange Squeezer - 2N5457 Equivalent (2n5484)
« on: February 01, 2009, 06:29:39 PM »
Hi All,

Just a quick question (hopefully). Built 2 orange squeezers, unfortunately can't get 2n5457 here in Australia.  I looked around and found that 2n5484 might be an equivalent for these (i think i found this info in a thread in this forum...).  I've tried these and to be honest...and apart from a VERY small tonal different, i cant hear anything.  Infact, its hard to tell if its just boosting the level or actually compressing....I know, this is a subtle compressor.  But i've been using it for about 2 months now (regularly) and i honestly can't hear any difference.  I've set the trimpot to the right spot following the direction on a different thread (in the 'sweetspot').  I recall i had to lower the value of one of the resistors, because the compressor was distorting alot...i'll post specifics about this when i get home tonight...

So the question is, is this actually working?  Are my ears just not hearing it?  Or could the 2n5484 be a bad match for the 2n5457?

Datasheets:
2n5457 - http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/2N/2N5459.pdf
2n5485 - http://www.jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/ZT2375%20-%202N5484.pdf

Looking at some of the specifications on those 2 datasheets they seem totally different, but i'm not an expert on the topic or the orange squeezer.

Thanks for any help you can give me!
CS
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Mark Hammer

Re: Orange Squeezer - 2N5457 Equivalent (2n5484)
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2009, 07:24:02 PM »
Well, given how often the 2n3819 is used in the same kind of spot that a 2n5457 is used in, for envelope-controlled things, my gut says to try a 2n3819.

intricatecode

Re: Orange Squeezer - 2N5457 Equivalent (2n5484)
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2009, 07:27:13 PM »
well i'm working on a valve version of the orange squeezer and i'm also having trouble hearing the compression, though in my case it may be due to a number of things i'm doing (wrong) relative to the original circuit. but if you want to know if its doing something check out the resistance variance between source and drain in the fet that's connected to ground through a trimmer. If the resistance goes down while you strike a chord and then rises up again gradually then it's working.

You should be able to make it work with any jfets as long as you bias them properly.

Btw have a couple of questions for you guys, the second jfet conected to the positive voltage is working as a CCS rigth? Also i'm using a silicon diode instead of the germanium one, the higher forward voltage wont help either i guess, but if there is enough signal going through it should work all the same? anyway i'm measuring diferences in resistance while i'm playing so it must be doing something only it's pretty darn hard to notice it.

chromesphere

Re: Orange Squeezer - 2N5457 Equivalent (2n5484)
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2009, 07:56:15 PM »
Hi guys,  Thanks for the response.

Mark: Unfortunately i can't get 2n3819 either!  :( i have heard that MFP102's will work so i might try a couple of those.

Intricatecode: From what i've read around here 1) you dont have to bias the Jfet's, apparently, but then i've also read that you do, so who knows.  2) you have to use a germanium diode, otherwise it wont work properly and...ahh...possibly distort alot?(again, just stuff i've read). 

Um...hang on...biasing jfet's is matching them....yeah?  Or is it something else....?

CS
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.Mike

Re: Orange Squeezer - 2N5457 Equivalent (2n5484)
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2009, 05:03:47 AM »
What your Orange Squeezer is doing is exactly what my Orange Squeezer was doing for the longest time-- it was a booster. It turns out mine was misbiased. I had read all of the suggestions on how to set the trimpot, and finally got it figured out.

If you are using a standard 1-turn trimpot, you have an extremely narrow range you need to hit in order to get the compression to work. It's not easy. I was only able to get it once, and when I bumped the trimpot it changed. I just replaced my 1-turn trimpot with a 25-turn trimpot, and was able to bias it right up with no problems since I had a much larger target to hit.

What ended up working is this. Maybe it will work for you. Turn the trimpot until the sound cuts off. Now slowly turn the trimpot until you hear the guitar. Do you hear that crackle as it transitions from no sound to sound? That's where you need to be, right in the middle of the crackle. Set the trimpot to the middle of the crackle and strum a chord. Listen for compression, which on my perfed Orange Squeezer can be subtle if you don't know what to listen for. When the effect is engaged, the attack of the notes is noticeably more punchy, particularly when quickly stringing together several notes. When the notes or chords begin to fade, the gain increases in a very audible fashion to me as the compressor releases. The gain increase is very obvious on my noisy Strat, as volume increase of the hum is very noticeable.

If you hear compression at that point, good. If not, keep trying to hit different points within the crackle.  If you want, I can probably post some sound clips of mine so you can know what to listen for.

Oh yeah, and I am using one MPF102 and one 2N5457, so the JFETs do not need to be matched. They do, however, need to be biased, which is what you are doing when turning the trimpot. I'm using an 1N34A diode, a JRC4558D opamp, and a 200k feedback resistor (originally 220k).

:)

Mike

Hi All,

Just a quick question (hopefully). Built 2 orange squeezers, unfortunately can't get 2n5457 here in Australia.  I looked around and found that 2n5484 might be an equivalent for these (i think i found this info in a thread in this forum...).  I've tried these and to be honest...and apart from a VERY small tonal different, i cant hear anything.  Infact, its hard to tell if its just boosting the level or actually compressing....I know, this is a subtle compressor.  But i've been using it for about 2 months now (regularly) and i honestly can't hear any difference.  I've set the trimpot to the right spot following the direction on a different thread (in the 'sweetspot').  I recall i had to lower the value of one of the resistors, because the compressor was distorting alot...i'll post specifics about this when i get home tonight...

So the question is, is this actually working?  Are my ears just not hearing it?  Or could the 2n5484 be a bad match for the 2n5457?

Datasheets:
2n5457 - http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/2N/2N5459.pdf
2n5485 - http://www.jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/ZT2375%20-%202N5484.pdf

Looking at some of the specifications on those 2 datasheets they seem totally different, but i'm not an expert on the topic or the orange squeezer.

Thanks for any help you can give me!
CS
If you're not doing it for yourself, it's not DIY. ;)

My effects site: Just one more build... | My website: America's Debate.

ralley

Re: Orange Squeezer - 2N5457 Equivalent (2n5484)
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2009, 05:37:59 AM »
2n5457 shouldn't be too hard to get is Aus, Futurelec (www.futurlec.com.au) list them at Aus. $1.50 each. Oh and they also have 2n3819 at only $0.39 each.

Rob (an Auswi).
(Edited to add the 2n3819)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 05:41:34 AM by ralley »
Sender lawyers, guns and money
The sh*t has hit the fan.
   - Warren Zevon

brett

Re: Orange Squeezer - 2N5457 Equivalent (2n5484)
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2009, 05:57:21 AM »
A 2N5486 might be closer.
MPF102s are highly variable, and cover the range you are after. If you bought 4, I reckon you'd find 2 of them would fix that critter up.
Brett Robinson
Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend. (Mao Zedong)

oldrocker

Re: Orange Squeezer - 2N5457 Equivalent (2n5484)
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2009, 09:21:58 AM »
I used MPF102's or 5952's in mine.

cpm

Re: Orange Squeezer - 2N5457 Equivalent (2n5484)
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2009, 11:26:46 AM »
j201 works
also mpf102, bf245, etc...

chromesphere

Re: Orange Squeezer - 2N5457 Equivalent (2n5484)
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2009, 08:10:48 PM »
Hi all,

Hey i totally forgot about this thread i started, thanks for all the replies!!!

Ok, im going to try mikes suggestion and listen for the crackle.  Mine is acting like a volume control as well.  The first half goes from zero volume to normal volume, and the 2nd half goes from normal volume to pretty loud.  Im assuming this is not the way its supposed to behave.

If that doesnt work, im going onto plan b: try using mpf102's.

Thanks again for all the reponses!  Much appreciated!

CS
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chromesphere

Re: Orange Squeezer - 2N5457 Equivalent (2n5484)
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2009, 05:21:32 AM »
Hello again,

Just to conclude on this one, the 2n5484 actually work.  The probably was, my compressor noob ears didnt know what to listen out for.  I borrowed a friends boss compressor pedal, and low and behold, it had a similar sound, except more obvious (the OS being a subtle compressor, its expected).

Sounds good too!  With overdrives or distortion pedals, smooths it out and adds a bit of attack to chords, slightly 'squeshes' the highs and lows.  I recorded this sample today. Recorded with Gibson SG -> small stone clone -> ts 808 clone -> orange squeezer -> Fender Twin (reverb on).  Dont know if you will be able to hear the compression but here it is regardless:

http://www.chromesphere.com/x/music/OS-TS808-Small%20Stone-SpringReverb_mixdown.mp3

Thanks again for everyones help.  Once again the DIYStompbox community to the rescue :-)
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