Author Topic: Getting close-HELP!!  (Read 10351 times)

THOMMO

Getting close-HELP!!
« on: June 18, 2009, 08:12:57 PM »
Ok, I've breadboarded this thing, and with a bit of trial and error I have some sound coming through.

But it's not the full sound. It's sort of spluttery. The harder I play the more sound comes through.

So something is not quite right. The pot seems to working correctly. Is there a simple solution?

Cheers, Jason.
May The Twang Be With You

aron

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2009, 08:40:17 PM »
The only solution is to triple check your breadboard layout. Somewhere there's a wiring mistake.

Aron

THOMMO

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2009, 10:19:13 PM »
I resoldered the jacks and pot, problem is still there. I spun the transistor around, still there. When the transistor is out there is a nice
 clean signal getting through. Plug it back in the problem is there. Dunno if that means it's the tranny.

I've checked the component placement stacks of times and it is right.


Jason.
May The Twang Be With You

THOMMO

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2009, 01:33:02 AM »
Update-resoldered pot again, even tried different pot, still the same thing happening. ???

I repegged the BB, took it slow, did it right.

It's actually the LPB-1 circuit that I'm doing, if that makes any difference. :icon_confused:

Maybe I can get a photo up in here.

Jason.
May The Twang Be With You

demonstar

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2009, 07:32:42 AM »
Jason,

Are you sure you have wired the input and output jacks properly? Also check the transistor is in the correct way around. Are you aware of the correct 'pinout' for you transistor?

If you have a multimeter could you measure the DC voltage at the point where the 43k and the 430k resistor connect? Make sure the circuit has power then connect touch the negative side of the battery with the black lead and touch the read lead to the point between the two resistors. There are a few other voltages that would be helpful so leave the black lead where it is and touch the red lead to the side of the 430k resistor nearest the battery and record this voltage. Also leaving the black lead where it is can you touch the red lead between the transistor and the 390R resistor and record the value. Finally, still keeping the black lead still, touch the red lead between the transistor and the 10k resistor and record and then on the red lead on the other side of the resistor and record.

That should mean you have measured the DC voltages at the points below all with reference to ground...

1.Point between 43k and 430k.
2.Point at side of 430k nearest +ve battery terminal.
3.Point between 390R and transistor.
4.Point between 10k and transistor
5.Point at side of 10k nearest +ve battery terminal.

What type of transistor are you using? 2N2088?, 2N3904?, 2N2222?

I will try and reply as soon as I can. Sorry if it does take a while.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 07:47:43 AM by demonstar »
"If A is success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut"  Words of Albert Einstein

THOMMO

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2009, 07:00:30 PM »
Unfortunately I don't have a multimeter yet. I'm using a 2N3904. It's the same result no matter which way if faces.

Here are a few pics of what I've done.  Hopefully they are good enough. Let me know if they need to be more
specific. I can take more, no worries.









Thanks.
Jason.
May The Twang Be With You

demonstar

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2009, 07:09:34 PM »
To be honest I'll find it hard to work from the pictures. If you can get those voltages at some point though I may be able to help. Despite this looking at the wiring of socket in the lower picture doesn't look right. Can you explain to me each connection you have made involving battery, pot and sockets?
"If A is success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut"  Words of Albert Einstein

THOMMO

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2009, 11:33:35 PM »
Ok, lets go! :) I'll be referencing the last pic.

Pot first, right to left:Brown wire goes to power section(top right of BB)with positive of battery snap. When disconnected my normal amp sound comes through, loud and clear.
Yellow wire connects withe output tip(orange wire)
Black wire connects with output cap(you can see it in the first pic, top row, inline with outside lead of C2).

Input jack(on left of pic):tip to BB, you can follow it in the pic. 

Output section(bottom right of BB) orange wire to tip of jack. I got these jacks out of a broken battery anp.

Battery snap:positive-Middle of top right. Negative is connected to the sleeve of output. This took a lot of noise out.

I think thats about it . The big Yellow wire goes from the power section to the sleeve of the input. When this is disconnected there is a whole lot of noise!
This is what I was following:
   http://www.beavisaudio.com/bboard/projects/bbp_LPB1.pdf
May The Twang Be With You

Alex C

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2009, 11:37:48 PM »
Hello sir,

It's actually the LPB-1 circuit that I'm doing, if that makes any difference.
Which schematic are you using? I found this one: http://www.muzique.com/schem/lpb1.gif 
It seems that you may be using a different one, as it appears that you have a 1M pulldown resistor to ground from the input, and maybe a 1M between the transistor's base and V+.

From the pictures you posted it looks like there are some problems with the power connections. In this image:

it looks like the bottom rails (+ and -) are not connected to the power supply, unless there is an internal connection to the rails on the opposite side, but I've never seen that on this type of breadboard.  Each of the two rails across the bottom (and each of the two along the top) is usually internally connected along its length (left to right using this photo's orientation), although not always across the center gap.  In your other breadboard thread I think most of the links seemed to indicate that these connections are already made inside the breadboard, but this is usually not the case.  You could try connecting the uppermost + rail to that along the bottom, and the same with the - rails.  But see below.

It also looks like the battery clip might have an error in its connection. It appears that the red wire is going to the topmost rail, but so are the ring of the input jack and the counterclockwise lug of the volume pot- the latter two should be connected to ground (which can be that rail), whereas the red wire from the battery clip should be connected to the + power rail(s). 

Additionally, it looks like the black wire from the battery clip is going to the ring of the output jack, but nothing else.  This point should connect to the - power rails.

My apologies if I'm looking at things the wrong way, it's a little tough to see all the details in the photos.

I would recommend a few things:
-try connecting the red wire of the battery clip to the lower of the two bottom power rails, as it seems that is your V+ rail
-connect the yellow wire from the input jack (the one on the left in that photo) to the upper of the two bottom power rails; this will be your - rail/ground connection
-connect the black wire from the battery clip to that same ground rail
-connect the ring of the output jack (the black wire on the jack on the right in that photo) to that same ground rail
-connect the counterclockwise lug of the volume pot (as you look at it with the lugs facing you and the shaft pointing up) to that same ground rail

With these steps you will only need to use the lower set of rails, the uppermost of those two being the ground rail and the lower being the V+ rail.

I hope this helps, and I hope I'm seeing things accurately.  I'll be out of town for a week starting tomorrow morning so I won't be around for follow-up!  Good luck!

-Alex


THOMMO

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2009, 12:11:56 AM »
This is what I'm using; 

 

I'l give your instructions a go( I've got the BB right in front of me).

Back soon :)

Jason.
May The Twang Be With You

THOMMO

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2009, 12:14:38 AM »
Whoops, pic didn't work! ::) Try this

 http://www.beavisaudio.com/bboard/projects/bbp_LPB1.pdf

Jason.
May The Twang Be With You

THOMMO

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2009, 12:55:35 AM »
Ok, good news! I've got sound comming through. Not all spluttery and crap! :D
Now the problem is that the volume is nowhere near what it should be.
At full crank on the pot it's WAY below what the normal amp volume is. It's like the signal isn't getting through properly.
The tranny is flat side OUT. No sound the other way round.
I disconnected the +battery lead, still sound but a lot quieter.

Thanks Alex! I was starting to get frustrated not knowing how to get this thing going.

Jason.
May The Twang Be With You

demonstar

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2009, 03:26:56 AM »
That's good to hear that you have some sound coming through but unfortunately it's not always a good indication of how close your are to completing the build. You shouldn't have any of the pot connections going to the positive supply.

Assuming you followed the breadboard layout you suggested. Connect the positive long rails on either side of board together and the same for negative. Then connect the red of the battery to the positive rail and the black to the negative rail. Next take the sockets and connect a tip connection to the input and the tip connection on the other socket to the output. Now take the sleeve output from both the sockets and plug them into the negative rail and you'll be fine. I hope. That should be easier to follow.

As for your transistor when it is lying in you hand flat side up, the leads left to right are emitter, base, collector. (You need to learn to look this up on a datasheet or it's going to keep coming back and biting you every time you build something.) The datasheet is your friend!
"If A is success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut"  Words of Albert Einstein

THOMMO

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2009, 04:35:16 AM »
Thanks demonstar. I followed Alex's instructions from his post and thats how I got to the sound comming through
stage but with the volume issue. I'm now just using the bottom rails. top-ground, bottom-power.

From what I can hear now, it's gonna sound pretty good at propper volumes. 8)

Jason.
May The Twang Be With You

doitle

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2009, 04:39:53 AM »
On that schematic posted here with the image of the bread board layout there is a picture of the original EH LPB. What does the switch on the front do? Is that how it is engaged? With a slider switch? Seems peculiar to me.

THOMMO

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2009, 06:24:44 AM »
Hey doitle! I wondered the same thing. Because the switch isn't in the layout as far as I can tell. I might try the EH site.

Any way, on to a more important matter :icon_biggrin:

My BB Boost is WORKING awesomely!!! :icon_mrgreen:. I didn't want to give up on this stuff because I'm really interested in it.
So I cleared the BB and started over, making sure I had everything correct. I moved the power and grounds to the left side of the circuit(as you see it in the above pics).

Connected the pot and jacks, hooked up the battery, plugged in and the sound was Sh*t. >:( I was trying not to blow a fuse when I thought
to flip the tranny around and ala peanut-butter sandwiches, maximum boostage!!!!

The 2N3904 is pretty crunchy at max. But roll of the guitars volume and it's clean city. It certainly beefs up the sound a lot. I really like it! I've got some other trannys
I'll try to see how they sound compared to the 2N3904.

So I guess the next step is to get all this onto a board. I'm thinking I can use the BB layout to help transfer the components to my board.

I also have all the gear for the actual beginer project set aside. When the LPB is done, I will built it and compare the two.
May The Twang Be With You

demonstar

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2009, 06:47:54 AM »
I'm glad you got it working!  :)

I'd strongly suggest you get a multimeter. How much you spend will depend on how serious this hobby is going to be. Even a very basic one will do fine to get you started. It really only need be able to measure DC voltages, AC voltages, Current and Resistance. Any extras are a bonus.

So you know Ohms Law and other basic electricity? I don't mean to insult you if you do but if you don't it's worth learning because along with physical tools such as a DMM basic physical principles are really important.

Well done and good luck soldering it all together!
"If A is success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut"  Words of Albert Einstein

THOMMO

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2009, 04:35:39 AM »
Thanks for all the help guys!! A multimeter is on this weeks shopping list for sure!

As for the theory side of things, I'm as dumb as they come ;D

In the last few weeks I've mainly learned about caps, resistors, trannys and that kind of stuff.  But I will get there!

Thanks again.

Jason.
May The Twang Be With You

demonstar

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2009, 04:51:27 AM »
Quote
I'm as dumb as they come
I'm sure you are not. You just haven't tried to learn it or come across it yet.
"If A is success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut"  Words of Albert Einstein

THOMMO

Re: Getting close-HELP!!
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2009, 03:34:40 AM »
HaHa, yeah! I'm just not that much of a reader. ;)
May The Twang Be With You