Stomp 3pdt´s and dpdt´s..I´ve just had enough!!

[R.G.]

Have you built this yet?

The CD4053 setup? Yes, use them all the time. They *do* have a transient on switching. In my circuits, that's down around 100uV and happens over about 3mS. It's completely inaudible.

[gmr1]

I'm sure this has been thought of, but what about using an actual arcade button? The buttons in my MAME cabinet have been bashed on for years, and I think I've replace 1 "cherry" switch in that time (and they pop right in and out). Plus they're really cheap and the buttons come in lots of cool colors... It's just a momentary switch, yes?

I'm guessing it's been thought of, and the pressure of a foot is likely way more than the brute force of the palm of my hand when I get mad at moon patrol...

[edvard]

Have you built this yet?

The CD4053 setup? Yes, use them all the time. They *do* have a transient on switching. In my circuits, that's down around 100uV and happens over about 3mS. It's completely inaudible.

LOL, I wasn't asking YOU, R.G. 
You mentioned a few times that this is the setup you use.
I'm planning on using this idea in my own builds as this is the first time I've heard of standard stompswitches being so unreliable.

I've rebuilt many a switch but they were on some of the oldest, crustiest pedals you can imagine.
One I remember most was an old multi-effect that looked like an extra-wide Wah with a vertical line of stompswitches and each one of them was bad.
When I opened them up, it looked like contact was made via a metal roller that was toggled back and forth by the switch mechanism.
Grease and hair was causing them to be intermittent or non-functional. How the hair got in, I have no idea.
Funny pedal, though. It had fuzz, delay (sawtooth-fired tremolo, really... heh, the tricksters...) and the wah controlled a phase circuit(!)
When the phase was switched out, the wah became a volume pedal.
Wish I had time to take down the layout, but it needed to be fixed pretty quick.

Daniel, have you tried this yet? If so, what mo switch did you end up using?
I'm thinking Greg's idea with the arcade buttons might work fine, especially if there were a metal version.
The way arcade buttons are built, the button cap is what limits the travel, not the actual switch mechanics.
So as long as the cap holds out, the switch is protected.
The buttons on the Danelectro pedals always reminded me of those.

[bdevlin]

I'm sure this has been thought of, but what about using an actual arcade button? The buttons in my MAME cabinet have been bashed on for years, and I think I've replace 1 "cherry" switch in that time (and they pop right in and out). Plus they're really cheap and the buttons come in lots of cool colors... It's just a momentary switch, yes?

Great!  I can already see the pictures in my head in the 'show me those enclosures' thread.  People making stomp box enclosures out of pinball machines

[edvard]

Aw man, do you realize how HARD that would rock?

[dschwartz]

well, i made the board, and i´m now designing other switching board..
i´m designing the pcb for a new switching system that uses 4 fets for bypass and A/B channel (most of my pedals have 2 master volumes or other a/b switches).

I´m using a 4069 for 2 flip flops (you only need 2 invertes for a flip flop..i use 4 for 2 flip flops, and the other 2 to drive the leds...2 fets do the a/b switch, and the other 2 the bypass..also, the board includes buffers for in and out..

for the switches i´m using something similar to This: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/alteractuator/alteractuator.htm
using a Bolt, a shaft, a nut and a spring..i´ll show the results as soon as i finish..

[edvard]

Nice, can't wait to see the finished product...

[~arph]

We do get the occasional box back in from our first version of enclosures in what I call "flat-topped" condition. If you get a good run and jump at a box where all the knobs and switches are exposed on the top of the pedal, and come down at a slight angle with your steel-tapped boots, you can break the actuators/shafts off the switch/controls, all at the same time. 

  Yes, but even the guitarist in question will recognize that this condition isn't exacty within the warranty...

Hey I dropped a five ton PA speaker on it and now it's dead..

[R.G.]

Yes, but even the guitarist in question will recognize that this condition isn't exacty within the warranty...

Hey I dropped a five ton PA speaker on it and now it's dead..

You would think so wouldn't you? Ask anyone who sells things to retail customers about the ideas they get for what should be covered under warranty. 

[mdaudet]

Hi.

If the mechanical momentary switch must be a good one, the "soft touch" Carling style switch should do the job.
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=672

For DIY i think its easier to wire it instead of the actuator B.O.B, because you don't need a PCB under.

One trick that i do with DPDT is to "clean" the grease inside them. That brings to life the switches... seriously.

Cheers.

(saludos Daniel  )

[Andi]

Other than the Knitters I used when I first started making pedals (which are more heavy-duty push buttons than footswitches) I don't think I've had a single footswitch fail.

I do agree with the posts that suggest excessive heat may be the cause of many failures. Apem's switches (as an example) are all rated for 3 seconds at 300C for soldering, and I believe I'm well inside that.

[tempus]

The 4053, like all switches can be made to pop or not pop. CMOS switches need to be biased nearly at the middle of their DC voltage supply to let the insides cancel any offset that would cause clicks. The article shows how.

A little off topic here maybe, but could you achieve the same thing (i.e., the biasing at the middle of their DC voltage supply to let the insides cancel any offsets that would cause clicks) by using a split supply (like +/-9v) on a CD4053 (or any other CMOS switch)? If so, it would be easier to implement with a lower parts count using a TC1044 or similar DC-DC converter.

[sevenisthenumber]

Anyone know what the old black top footswitches were that EARLY Fulltone stuff had on it? They had a soft click..

[R O Tiree]

A little off topic here maybe, but could you achieve the same thing (i.e., the biasing at the middle of their DC voltage supply to let the insides cancel any offsets that would cause clicks) by using a split supply (like +/-9v) on a CD4053 (or any other CMOS switch)? If so, it would be easier to implement with a lower parts count using a TC1044 or similar DC-DC converter.

18V is the absolute maximum stated in the datasheet. I think I'd prefer to have some headroom there, so I'd look at a +9V/-9V supply and then drop it down with a 7805/7905 pair to give +5V/-5V. By the time you've added in all the extra caps for the regulators, plus the 1044 and its associated caps, you're probably not that far off the original parts count. In addition, you'd probably be taking up the same amount of board space.

[earthtonesaudio]

I've hooked up a 4053 as shown in the GEOFEX articles, but I hear a slight (more like a "zip" than a "pop") transient on switching.  Is it possible the "Vref" is slightly different for different brands of chips, in the same way it is for the 4049/4069 inverters?

[tempus]

I'd look at a +9V/-9V supply and then drop it down with a 7805/7905 pair to give +5V/-5V.

But would this be the same as biasing the inputs at 1/2V+ in terms of avoiding the switch pop issue?

[R O Tiree]

Yes - remember, these things don't care if you supply a total of 10V by means of 0V and +10V or -2V and +8V or -5V and +5V or anything else you can think of. IIRC, the supply voltage can be as low as about 3V and goes up to an absolute max of 18V (I definitely know that last number... first one I skipped over, but I think it was in that ball-park).

-5V/+5V is handy, because 5V regulators are easy to get hold of and they should give you ample signal headroom either side of GND. GND in this case serves as Vref, circuit GND and also signal GND. It shouldn't pop. It sez 'ere.

[nexion777]

Hi, 

I am very interested in electronic bypass system, mainly as a way to reduce the annoying noise produced by mechanical as well as the low reliability of the latter in time. Unfortunately I am a beginner in electronics, and many arguments (even after reading geofex's article about 4053 switching and seen some danelectro schematics) leave me in doubt. First: Having built a few pedals I think it is a good thing to send the fx input to ground when bypassed, and on the Processaurus schematic seem to do something similar, only instead of ground the input fx is sent to 1/2Vcc. Why?

P.S. please forgive my bad english

[earthtonesaudio]

If the 1/2 supply point is a very low impedance voltage source, then it is practically the same as ground as far as AC signals are concerned.

[nexion777]

thanks for the reply, so in practice in I can send the fx input through the 4053 to ground or to vref indifferently (for example depending on how it is more convenient to draw the tracks in the layout arrangement).