Author Topic: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??  (Read 6555 times)

richon

[WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« on: July 09, 2009, 02:21:38 PM »
Did  anyone mod the two 0.22uF capacitors to Tantalum???

(before i have to tear my wah appart???  :icon_mrgreen:)
Richon - Ricardo
Viņa del Mar
Chile
www.richon.cl

richon

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 09:45:56 AM »
it seems, noone tried it before..


i guess someone would.




(PS: tomorrow i will have to test it myself....)
Richon - Ricardo
Viņa del Mar
Chile
www.richon.cl

roseblood11

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 03:35:31 PM »
Why should anybody do that? Tantalums are the worst caps you can use... I know that some well known pedal modders use them, but it doesnīt make any sense. Tantalums are small and cheap (thatīs why big companies use them) and they have nice colors (thatīs why pedal modders use them for their far too expensive mods).

Use a good film cap instead, could be polypropylene or polyester. I used panasonic stacked metal film, but any film cap will work good there, itīs just a matter of taste.

richon

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2009, 04:26:30 PM »
... itīs just a matter of taste.

and my taste and my ear tells me that Tantalum caps sound good on Tubescreamers and even in some Distorition Pedals (RAT).... so i just like how they sound in some pedals.....

My taste tells me also that Modded TS with only Poly Caps (and no Tants) sounds a little sterile (with no Character)....

like you said: " it's just a matter of taste"....
Richon - Ricardo
Viņa del Mar
Chile
www.richon.cl

jacobyjd

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2009, 04:30:57 PM »
lol go for it.

Then ask us what to swap them out for when they crap out in a couple years.

Film caps are what you want.

The only difference you'll hear if you change out for tantalum will either be a result of a change in capacitance up to the % of tolerance OR what you're brain fools you into hearing.
Warsaw, Indiana's poetic love rock band: http://www.bellwethermusic.net

richon

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2009, 04:36:27 PM »
... OR what you're brain fools you into hearing.

I hope my brain is not fooling with me  :icon_mrgreen: ,  but i really hear the difference between Poly and Tants in a TS or a RAT...

with Tants notes are sharp, with more presence....    poly makes a little unclearer compared to Tants. Some Friends sayed that maybe tants have a little to much presence in the pedals I modded.

I tend to avoid Tants in Coupling positions and use them as RC filtes only sometimes, but on some distortions they made the distorsion clearer more defined.
Richon - Ricardo
Viņa del Mar
Chile
www.richon.cl

jacobyjd

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2009, 04:40:57 PM »
what is the tolerance on the ones you used in distortions?

additionally, I'd love to see some scope readings of a before/after tantalum cap swap in your rat and/or TS.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 04:49:46 PM by jacobyjd »
Warsaw, Indiana's poetic love rock band: http://www.bellwethermusic.net

richon

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2009, 04:53:09 PM »
low?   :icon_mrgreen:   ( i really don't know) but i only use the one that have an exact match to the ones I change to make a real objective Test with to different materials into One DPDT switch.

in some parts of the TS the Tants cuts the HF and make the upper mids clearer compared to Poly or Electros NP. But on other parts Tants make it sound Dull (like replacing the final 10uF of the TS with tant)

so now I'll just have to test them in my REGISTERED BLIND TEST MATERIAL  :icon_mrgreen: into the WAH.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 04:54:40 PM by richon »
Richon - Ricardo
Viņa del Mar
Chile
www.richon.cl

jacobyjd

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2009, 04:55:55 PM »
If the caps are low-tolerance, the difference in sound you're hearing has nothing to do with the difference in material. It's got everything to do with the difference in tolerance.

If you want to mod your wah for some subtle changes, you're better off changing the value of the filter cap slightly.
Warsaw, Indiana's poetic love rock band: http://www.bellwethermusic.net

richon

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2009, 05:11:04 PM »
If the caps are low-tolerance, the difference in sound you're hearing has nothing to do with the difference in material. It's got everything to do with the difference in tolerance.

but I measure them with a Digital Tester to pick exact matches....  :icon_idea:
Richon - Ricardo
Viņa del Mar
Chile
www.richon.cl

SISKO

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2009, 05:55:11 PM »
 why dont you mod your wah and tell us how it sounds? Im diyng to hear it!
--Is there any body out there??--

jacobyjd

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2009, 06:35:23 PM »
why dont you mod your wah and tell us how it sounds? Im diyng to hear it!
me too!
Warsaw, Indiana's poetic love rock band: http://www.bellwethermusic.net

Slade

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2009, 06:56:06 PM »
richon, I told you what you get by changing them, it was my idea, I did it and I shared the results with you.
No mention for me here???

I did it and I get a cleaner tone, more transparent. I like it.
Just try it.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 06:58:24 PM by Slade »

aron

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2009, 07:16:57 PM »
> but I measure them with a Digital Tester to pick exact matches.... 

Richon, in that one statement you probably do more than most people do here. Trust your ears and if it works for you, then great!

Dai H.

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2009, 12:54:01 AM »
seems to me in the real world there is "good sounding" equipment built with "bad sounding caps" such as tantalums, ceramic, or whatever so I'd take any recommendations, pronouncements, etc. with a grain of salt.

roseblood11

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2009, 01:30:52 PM »
Hi,

the material really makes a difference! The "problem" with tantalums is, that they produce distortion, because of their high dielectric absorption (ten times more than the worst electrolytic cap...). Nobody would use them in a hifi-audio circuit. But if you like that sound - why not? Itīs a matter of taste... And a good Wah isnīt supposed to sound perfectly clean.
Another example: Sometimes I use ceramic caps instead of silver micas for tone filtering, just because they add a little grit...

http://www.muzique.com/cap_faq.htm

a good article in german :
http://www.gitarrenelektronik.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=102&Itemid=93

Dai H.

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2009, 02:36:43 PM »
probably there are lots of people listening to hi-fi stereos listening to recordings in which the signal traveled through tantalum caps (shock horror...). Personally I don't buy this (if someone is arguing that this is some sort of absolute that tantalums sound unacceptably bad). It doesn't seem like people typically pick out "the unacceptably poor sound" on some recording that has gone through tantalum caps. Am I saying that no one will ever hear "poor sound caused by the use of tantalum caps"? No, but things don't seem so black and white to me in the sense that "tantalums are bad", "alu electros are bad" so "you should never pass the audio through them" or whatever. Distortion, for example, is it bad absolutely? I would think that most inhabitants here would say, "no, it depends".

(What's up with AMZ BTW?

http://www.muzique.com/news/ceramic-capacitors-for-guitar-pedals/

I thought Jack used to argue you couldn't hear the differences between different types of caps!? Didn't he have some audio comparison/test thing previously to prove that you could not tell? :icon_lol:)

bool

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2009, 04:11:43 PM »
It doesn't seem like people typically pick out "the unacceptably poor sound" on some recording that has gone through tantalum caps.
Are you referring to Neve consoles? Afaik Tant. caps are used as audio coupling caps in Neve's gaincards.

Paul Marossy

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2009, 05:59:39 PM »
seems to me in the real world there is "good sounding" equipment built with "bad sounding caps" such as tantalums, ceramic, or whatever so I'd take any recommendations, pronouncements, etc. with a grain of salt.

One of the best sounding tube amps I have uses ceramic coupling caps. In the DIY tube amp community, people would probably tell me that they absolutely would have to go. But I think the amp sounds great as is, and I wouldn't change a thing.

In a wah pedal, I think you could use any 0.22uF cap with the same tolerances as the original and they would all sound fine. Except for maybe noise levels might be affected slightly.

In fact, I bet that 98% of people listening to a wah pedal in a blind pedal test would not be able to discern between one type of cap and another, and I would even go far as to say that they might even like something like a dreaded ceramic cap the best in that sort of a test.

I still maintain that our preconceived notions about something very often sways what we think is the best sounding. That and all the hype you see on the net about this cap vs. that cap.

Dai H.

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2009, 06:03:39 PM »
yes! That is one of the things I discovered. IME, sometimes the "better" cap (film or whatever) does sound better, but in some cases the "worse" (class 2 ceramic or whatever) sounds "better" (to my ear, taste, the situation, etc.) so it does seem being a little too rigid might get in the way of getting the sound that works best, pleases, etc.