Author Topic: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??  (Read 6553 times)

Paul Marossy

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2009, 06:06:48 PM »
yes! That is one of the things I discovered. IME, sometimes the "better" cap (film or whatever) does sound better, but in some cases the "worse" (class 2 ceramic or whatever) sounds "better" (to my ear, taste, the situation, etc.) so it does seem being a little too rigid might get in the way of getting the sound that works best, pleases, etc.

Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Actually, I think the non-linearity of ceramic caps can oftentimes have pleasing results. If I use ceramic caps in the signal path, I'll use the 1kV types, though because they are more linear in their frequency response.

Gus

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2009, 06:18:04 PM »
Very good reads
http://uk.geocities.com/cyrilb2@btinternet.com/

http://greygum.net/sbench/sbench101/

http://greygum.net/sbench/sbench102/caps.html

http://greygum.net/sbench/sbench102/caps2.html

Caps it all depend where in a circuit they are.  Voltage difference across the plates, vibration, do you want the non linear or the linear?  ESR (Ratt feedback cap ESR matter here because of the 47 ohm and the Aluminum has more ESR than a Tant)

You can sometimes hear a change but it depends when I hear a change I measure and try to make sense of it.

Paul Marossy

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2009, 06:26:17 PM »
Caps it all depend where in a circuit they are.  Voltage difference across the plates, vibration, do you want the non linear or the linear?  ESR (Ratt feedback cap ESR matter here because of the 47 ohm and the Aluminum has more ESR than a Tant)

You can sometimes hear a change but it depends when I hear a change I measure and try to make sense of it.

True. In my '74 Fender Twin Reverb, I changed out the original "chocolate drop" coupling caps with Sprague Orange Drops, and the amp did seem to sound a little clearer and better afterwards. But those caps have 350 or so volts on them and are dealing with higher amplitudes, too.

In stompboxes operating on 9V, I'm not so sure about being able to clearly hear the differences in caps. Or carbon comp resistors vs. other types for that matter. I know, there are some exceptions, there always is. The point about ESR is a good one.

richon

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2009, 12:47:09 AM »
well...

finally, after a lot of mods: here it is the video to compare changind both 0.22uF polyester caps to Tantalum and vice versa...


post your coments
Richon - Ricardo
Viņa del Mar
Chile
www.richon.cl

Dai H.

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2009, 11:47:54 PM »
yes! That is one of the things I discovered. IME, sometimes the "better" cap (film or whatever) does sound better, but in some cases the "worse" (class 2 ceramic or whatever) sounds "better" (to my ear, taste, the situation, etc.) so it does seem being a little too rigid might get in the way of getting the sound that works best, pleases, etc.

Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Actually, I think the non-linearity of ceramic caps can oftentimes have pleasing results. If I use ceramic caps in the signal path, I'll use the 1kV types, though because they are more linear in their frequency response.

 :icon_redface: sorry for the confusion! I meant to reply to "bool" but didn't "quote" as I should have. However I do agree in that cheap ceramics can sometimes give the better result. FWIW I have some larger value 47nF class 1 ceramics (supposed to be "better" in the conventional sense compared to class 2 with less distortion, less piezoelectric behavior) and swapping them for cheaper class 2s, I've found the sound can be worse. There seems to be some sort of smearing/distortion thing that in certain cases works better (but conversely they do seem to sound bad too at times--harsh, distorted, ugly). Also, (although there may be some advantage in some situation with sound) fwiw there doesn't seem to be any advantage in size and cost (unless you happen to find some surplus) as you go bigger with the class 1. (I looked up bigger value class 1 in an old Mouser catalog, and although available, they were not particularly cheap--well, more kinda expensive really.) The film 47nF I have can be much smaller. Smaller values are easier to find and the modern multi-layer construction does appear to help reduce physical size.

richon

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2009, 12:42:52 AM »
well...

finally, after a lot of mods: here it is the video to compare changind both 0.22uF polyester caps to Tantalum and vice versa...


post your coments

here is the video: sorry   ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NdtADvGswg
Richon - Ricardo
Viņa del Mar
Chile
www.richon.cl

tiges_ tendres

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2009, 01:21:49 AM »
well...

finally, after a lot of mods: here it is the video to compare changind both 0.22uF polyester caps to Tantalum and vice versa...


post your coments

here is the video: sorry   ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NdtADvGswg

Toe down with the Tantalum seemed to have more treble, and maybe an edge of distortion/drive.  It's hard to tell with those videos though.

As for which I preferred, no preference really.  I think if it's a useful mod for you then great.  Every tone can find a happy home!
Try a little tenderness.

Paul Marossy

Re: [WAH MOD] did anyone mod 0.22uF to Tantalum??
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2009, 10:49:13 AM »
I think if it's a useful mod for you then great.  Every tone can find a happy home!

That's the bottom line with any kind of mod that can be made to any pedal. It's a personal preference thing.

 
:icon_redface: sorry for the confusion! I meant to reply to "bool" but didn't "quote" as I should have. However I do agree in that cheap ceramics can sometimes give the better result. FWIW I have some larger value 47nF class 1 ceramics (supposed to be "better" in the conventional sense compared to class 2 with less distortion, less piezoelectric behavior) and swapping them for cheaper class 2s, I've found the sound can be worse. There seems to be some sort of smearing/distortion thing that in certain cases works better (but conversely they do seem to sound bad too at times--harsh, distorted, ugly). Also, (although there may be some advantage in some situation with sound) fwiw there doesn't seem to be any advantage in size and cost (unless you happen to find some surplus) as you go bigger with the class 1. (I looked up bigger value class 1 in an old Mouser catalog, and although available, they were not particularly cheap--well, more kinda expensive really.) The film 47nF I have can be much smaller. Smaller values are easier to find and the modern multi-layer construction does appear to help reduce physical size.

The only point I was trying to make is that people have preconceived notions that certain types of components sound bad, and that is just not the case in my experience. But, it does depend on the circuit and where in the circuit they might be.