Author Topic: Develop your own tap-tempo controller - and be sued for patent infringement  (Read 13010 times)

jacobyjd

Re: Develop your own tap-tempo controller - and be sued for patent infringement
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2009, 11:50:01 PM »
You're probably right, so this will be our last post on this subject.

If you read this thread you will see we have repeatedly stated that we haven't filed patents on anything that anyone on this forum has ever suggested.  That answer was good enough for Josh earlier, but now it seems it isn't.

For the last time, we are not about to publish our pending patents, and we are not about to sue, or even accuse anyone of infringement when their products don't use our original ideas.

I think the fact that older schematics are passed around and posted all the time gives people the impression that there is no value to intellectual property when it comes to guitar effects.  But I'm also sure that anyone who has spent a thousand hours programming a microcontroller or working out a complex circuit feels a very strong sense of ownership.

Contrary to the way some people would like it, participating in a forum does not obligate you to disclose all of your original ideas, trade secrets or publish pending patents or do anything of the sort.

I said you gave a concrete answer--I didn't say it satisfied the question. It was honest (I hope), but lacking completeness. I'd say that the majority of members here (including me) don't have a problem with the fact that you're patenting something. However, if I were to venture a guess, it would be that most folks who read this will wonder--at least a little--why you waited so long to state actual facts in answer to Mike's question:

1.
Nothing we have filed patents on has even been suggested on this forum.  That's the bottom line.

and 2.
For the last time, we are not about to publish our pending patents, and we are not about to sue, or even accuse anyone of infringement when their products don't use our original ideas.

Your primary postings seem to relay that you were more interested in handing out ad hominem arguments to try to defeat Mike's credibility, as well as delivering  snarky comments toward me. Businesses always do better when they keep their processes relatively open to their customers, especially other businesses. This doesn't mean that you're required to drop all your trade secrets in a public forum, of course, but to leave questions unanswered (regardless of the terse fashion in which they may be presented) while berating members of what is essentially one of the two major centers of your end-user customer base is never a good policy.

Additionally, stretching beyond fact here, your inability to hold yourself within the bounds of professional conduct makes for a pretty poor showing in a place where good customer service (such as the action you took with some initial MV-52 customers in reprogramming their chips, kudos there) and firm, honest answers could have easily won the majority.

All deliberations on patents aside, it looks like you've got a decent product that has been on the wish lists of many people here and elsewhere. Keep making good products--that paired with a good PR guy will get you everywhere.
Warsaw, Indiana's poetic love rock band: http://www.bellwethermusic.net

Unbeliever

Re: Develop your own tap-tempo controller - and be sued for patent infringement
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2009, 02:02:13 AM »
For the last time, we are not about to publish our pending patents

I am not so sure that you actually have any 'pending patents'. I, and others, can find no evidence of patents submitted to the USPTO. Or perhaps by 'pending' you mean - 'we haven't submitted them yet, but use this word to give more weight to what we have done so people will license our valuable proprietary technology and give us money'?

Quote
...and we are not about to sue, or even accuse anyone of infringement when their products don't use our original ideas.

It's best to let people read the patents for themselves and make up their own minds, don't you think, what kind of 'danger' they might be in? One key concept behind a patent is PUBLIC DISCLOSURE. It might be wise to keep the information 'secret' though, if you think it won't stand up to examination or dissection by the experts in that field, in terms of originality.

People that I know who hold valid patents on original ideas are proud of what they have done and refer to their work openly. For 'some reason' this seems not to be the case with Molten Voltage.

SeanCostello

Re: Develop your own tap-tempo controller - and be sued for patent infringement
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2009, 05:01:37 PM »

I am not so sure that you actually have any 'pending patents'. I, and others, can find no evidence of patents submitted to the USPTO. Or perhaps by 'pending' you mean - 'we haven't submitted them yet, but use this word to give more weight to what we have done so people will license our valuable proprietary technology and give us money'?

Patent submission takes a long time. I know that when I went through the process, it was well over a year after the actual filing that my name showed up in the USPTO database. The filing took a few years, as well.

Quote
People that I know who hold valid patents on original ideas are proud of what they have done and refer to their work openly. For 'some reason' this seems not to be the case with Molten Voltage.

People that are filing patents tend to be under some pressure (from the attorneys, from the company they work for, etc.) not to talk about it until the patent is granted, or at least filed properly. A lot of things can go wrong in the process, and disclosing an idea at the wrong time can end up in your application being thrown out. In the US, you have a year from first public disclosure of the idea (in a paper, a product, etc.) to file your patent, but in Europe, I think that the patent filing has to come first.

One of the big reasons that you don't discuss patents publicly during the application process is in case someone hostile tries to get your patent application rejected. People trying to get patents have enough hoops to jump through, without having people trying to mess with your application. From your posts in this thread, you would certainly fall under the "hostile" flag, so why would the MoltenVoltage guys want to point you the way to their application?

Sean Costello

Fp-www.Tonepad.com

Re: Develop your own tap-tempo controller - and be sued for patent infringement
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2009, 05:49:25 PM »
I've had one for over a year and thinking about posting the starter code, it's stupid simple. (Meaning, I have developed my own code from scratch for a microcontroller ic). I have just learned about molten voltage and wish them success.

It's driving my new AboveGroundFX Tap Tremolo tm.

These kids are also pretty smart huh? http://wayneandlayne.com/metronome/ , after looking at my tap tempo metronome in my iphone, the tap tempo is everywhere, so let's get it for our pedals, i am excited about molten voltage and all the others that are soon to come up with their chips, all original code, some open, some secret, some do more, some less.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 06:00:46 PM by Fp-www.Tonepad.com »
www.tonepad.com : Effect PCB Layout artwork classics and originals : www.tonepad.com

puretube

Re: Develop your own tap-tempo controller - and be sued for patent infringement
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2009, 06:54:41 PM »


People that are filing patents tend to be under some pressure (from the attorneys, from the company they work for, etc.) not to talk about it until the patent is granted, or at least filed properly. A lot of things can go wrong in the process, and disclosing an idea at the wrong time can end up in your application being thrown out. In the US, you have a year from first public disclosure of the idea (in a paper, a product, etc.) to file your patent, but in Europe, I think that the patent filing has to come first.

One of the big reasons that you don't discuss patents publicly during the application process is in case someone hostile tries to get your patent application rejected. People trying to get patents have enough hoops to jump through, without having people trying to mess with your application. From your posts in this thread, you would certainly fall under the "hostile" flag, so why would the MoltenVoltage guys want to point you the way to their application?

Sean Costello

That`s when/why the term: "PAF" became famous...

Unbeliever

Re: Develop your own tap-tempo controller - and be sued for patent infringement
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2009, 07:55:41 AM »
From your posts in this thread, you would certainly fall under the "hostile" flag, so why would the MoltenVoltage guys want to point you the way to their application?

I am strongly against software patents, or patents on nebulous concepts of 'IP', or the patenting of ideas. And I am certainly 'hostile' towards bullying in this area also.


Unbeliever

Re: Develop your own tap-tempo controller - and be sued for patent infringement
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2009, 08:05:15 AM »

It's driving my new AboveGroundFX Tap Tremolo tm.


Don't devices with uCs needs to be approved by the FCC in the USA? I am unsure on this point.

head_spaz

Re: Develop your own tap-tempo controller - and be sued for patent infringement
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2009, 09:21:22 AM »
Well folks... since MV won't state the specific methods they are attempting to patent,
then there are only two ways of actually knowing if you're violating their IP.

One is "that anyone who has spent a thousand hours programming a microcontroller or working out a complex circuit feels a very strong sense of ownership."  So... in all likelihood, if you've spent a thousand hours programming a microcontroller or working out a complex circuit, even though you may feel a very strong sense of ownership, you're probably on dangerous ground because that's what MV seems to have invented, and is attempting to protect via a patent application.

Two, if that anyone who has spent more, or less, than a thousand hours programming a microcontroller or working out a complex circuit and feels a very strong sense of ownership, then you are probably ok, because if you found it easier, or harder than MV... you must not be smart enough to have stumbled upon their ingenious method.

Unless of course I completely misunderstood this whole patent pending drama.
Perhaps MV has filed for a patent on the efforts rather than the methods. If that's the case, you're are not allowed to invent any type of tap tempo, or even simulate a tap, even with your foot, or the Secret Service will S.W.A.T. your A$$ because only the US MINT has the authority to counterfeit.

Best regards,
Esq. B. Specific
(Defiler of all intellect)
Deception does not exist in real life, it is only a figment of perception.