Author Topic: The Worlsd smallest flangers....  (Read 70263 times)

gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #80 on: April 29, 2010, 12:12:25 AM »
Thank you very much again solderman for your work!

solderman

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #81 on: May 07, 2010, 02:06:25 PM »
Hi all
I found some time to fiddle with the A/DA again and this is the results. I have tampered with the trim pots as described and got to this result just by ear. Itís quite OK and I donít know it can get som much better that itís worth the cost of a new DMM with frequency capacity.

Here is a sloppy sound sample that sound more like a flanger than my earler sound sample. It's Strat Neck PU>A/DA>Clean Tube Amp>Sound Card>Cubase Record. No post FX etc.

http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA2.mp3 


I swapped the 2N3819 FET for a J201 as suggested by Dave and subbed the 10K Threshold pot for a 100K as suggested in the ling at post #75 And the threshold sort of works. Itís not to any grate use as I se it so I might omit it in the end.

I tested to swap the 3007 for a 3207 and adjusted all the DIP switches to go with the 3207 setup and it worked. DONíT FORGET TO SWITCH TO 9V. I had to tamper a bit with the clock pots to get a good flanging. But the result sounded almost the same as with the 3007. It was maybe a bit lamer. But just a bit. As I swapped back to 3007 I tested it at 9V and it worked but did not produce that deep flanging as with 15V. So 15V it is for the true sound. I guess itís the LFO-clock part that makes the difference but I canít figure out why 9V/15V would do to alter the behaviour in that part of the circuit.




So now itís ďBoxingĒ time. Iím gonna reuse an old one
The only bad sounding stomp box is an unbuilt stomp box. ;-)
//Take Care and build with passion

www.soldersound.com
xSolderman@soldersound.com (exlude x to mail)

gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #82 on: May 07, 2010, 02:42:34 PM »
Amazing work solderman!!!
I hope that in the next week I will have some time to build it :)

RickL

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #83 on: May 07, 2010, 11:52:24 PM »
No one's mentioned the Guyatone unit so I thought I would. I built one successfully using the PCB pattern and the 4ms CBCB construction method. It was a tight squeeze but it worked.

Two minor (related) things. I origionally built it using 1uF for C02 that sets the sweep speed. It worked but was very slow, even at the fastest rate. The build instructions suggest replacing C02 with a 680uF for faster rate. I'm guessing this was meant to be 680nF not uF(1). In any case I ended up using a 100nF which gave me the expected range of sweep speeds.

Does the commercial pedal really has this slow a sweep rate or is the value for C02 a typo(2)?

In any case, thanks for the layout.

solderman

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #84 on: May 08, 2010, 06:53:15 AM »
No one's mentioned the Guyatone unit so I thought I would. I built one successfully using the PCB pattern and the 4ms CBCB construction method. It was a tight squeeze but it worked.

Two minor (related) things. I origionally built it using 1uF for C02 that sets the sweep speed. It worked but was very slow, even at the fastest rate. The build instructions suggest replacing C02 with a 680uF for faster rate. I'm guessing this was meant to be 680nF not uF(1). In any case I ended up using a 100nF which gave me the expected range of sweep speeds.

Does the commercial pedal really has this slow a sweep rate or is the value for C02 a typo(2)?

In any case, thanks for the layout.
Hi
Yes the 680uF should be nF. After I posted tha I fiddeld with C2 and ended up with 220nF. I still want to keep that long sweep and also have the vibrato option.
overall this is the best and most musical Flanger I have tested. I guess that it depends on the filtering and rather mild and low frequecy  LFO/clock section. I'm planing to use the audio part and hook it up somthing hotter like the ultrafalanger LFO. Only mod is the around the BBD.
 
The only bad sounding stomp box is an unbuilt stomp box. ;-)
//Take Care and build with passion

www.soldersound.com
xSolderman@soldersound.com (exlude x to mail)

gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #85 on: May 16, 2010, 03:19:28 AM »
........................

So its not verified even if it ďalmostĒ works. The layout warnings are:

- The threshold part has some error. Cut the trace between Q1 and R36/37 and the rest will work.
- The the D9 diode on the PSU is ( or was ) turned wrong on the pic on page 3 . It should have the catod to 18V
- The speed, Range and Manual pot has lug 1&3 reversed. This is only a real problem and has to be fixed on speed since itís a  rev log. The others work but backwards.
- There is a no pad for the wire for the Vb to the Enhance pot on the Audio PCB   

.................................................................................

Hello again solderman!
I have a little more time for soldering, so I've started to build the ADA Flanger. Anyway, I hadn't enough time, so I've finished soldering only the resistors.
I founded a little mistake in the labeling of resistors: in the audio part (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20Audio.jpg) R49 must to be R43 (the real R49 is the one from the LFO part).
And, if you're kindly as usually, I have two questions for you:

1. the trace between Q1 and R36/R37 must to be cut under C16 or under R29 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20Audio.jpg)? I am almost sure that it must to be cut under R29, but...
2. you said "There is a no pad for the wire for the Vb to the Enhance pot on the Audio PCB". I don't understand anything...which is the "Enhanced pot"?

Thank you very much!

gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #86 on: May 16, 2010, 06:41:24 PM »
Hello again solderman,

I am glad that you didn't answered to my previous questions yet, because I've worked ahead on ADA and I have a couple of new questions to add:

1. maybe I'm stupid, maybe I'm too tired, but I can't find R62 and R68 (47 ohms both) and D7 (a 1N400x)...
2. which are the values of the R70-2 and R71-2 (I think that they are for MN3207)?
3. Charlie's instructions have the last resistor labeled R73, so which are the values of R75 and R76 that you added (and I suppose that you have no R74 because I couldn't find, too)?
4. Charlie's instructions have the last capacitor labeled R40, so which is the value of C41 that you added (I hope that's the only one that you added)?
5. who is your IC2 from the Audio PCB (in Charlie's instructions it's indicated as TL074, but it's too small for that...)?
6. can you be a little more explicit regarding the jumper from the "Manual" pot (I want to have it externally, but simple...without an expression pedal)?

Thank you very much again!

gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #87 on: May 16, 2010, 06:42:22 PM »
A last moment ideea: can you post some high resolutions photos with your build?
That can be very useful for me :)

Thank you a lot again!

solderman

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #88 on: May 17, 2010, 01:11:50 PM »
Sorry took a while but here is some answers



1. the trace between Q1 and R36/R37 must to be cut under C16 or under R29 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20Audio.jpg)? I am almost sure that it must to be cut under R29, but...

-Correct. You may cut trace and the connect a wire from D on Q1 and one on R37/37 and have them to a switch this way you can switch in and out the Threshold Pot.
 
2. you said "There is a no pad for the wire for the Vb to the Enhance pot on the Audio PCB". I don't understand anything...which is the "Enhanced pot"?

-Yes P1 is ďEnhaceĒ lug 1 goes to Vb. There ought to be a pad there where it says P1-1 on the audio part.

1. maybe I'm stupid, maybe I'm too tired, but I can't find R62 and R68 (47 ohms both) and D7 (a 1N400x)...

-R68 is in the LFO part next to the 4007. I have removed R62,55,C26,22 40 and D7 cause they are not needed. C4 is swapped to 100uF.  R77 is added as a current limiting R for the status LED.  

2. which are the values of the R70-2 and R71-2 (I think that they are for MN3207)?

70-1=1K
70-2=14K
71-1=14K
71-2=1K


3. Charlie's instructions have the last resistor labeled R73, so which are the values of R75 and R76 that you added (and I

-suppose that you have no R74 because I couldn't find, too)?
R75 and 76 are both 68K they are for the IC2 Vb bias. There is no R74 donít ask me why 


4. Charlie's instructions have the last capacitor labeled R40, so which is the value of C41 that you added (I hope that's the only one that you added)?

-C41 is a filter Cap for the IC2 bias 10uF

5. who is your IC2 from the Audio PCB (in Charlie's instructions it's indicated as TL074, but it's too small for that...)?

-Itís any dual Op-Amp  TL072 etc. for producing Vb bias to the audio part and separate the Vb bias from the LFO to avoid LFO ticking.  

6. can you be a little more explicit regarding the jumper from the "Manual" pot (I want to have it externally, but simple...without an expression pedal)?

-Well, I donít really understand since the P3 on the LFO part IS an external ďmanualĒ pot and to have it that way jumper the pad from lug 2 to the pad that goes from under R50.


Pleas get back to me if you have further questions.  

PS.
I have Emailed you some pics hope you are on a fast link :-)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 01:20:42 PM by solderman »
The only bad sounding stomp box is an unbuilt stomp box. ;-)
//Take Care and build with passion

www.soldersound.com
xSolderman@soldersound.com (exlude x to mail)

gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #89 on: May 17, 2010, 01:40:20 PM »
Solderman, you're GREAT and VERY KINDLY :)
Thank you a million times!
With this indications, I hope I will finished it tomorrow night...

gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #90 on: May 18, 2010, 12:32:37 AM »
Hello again solderman!

I worked on it (but only a short time) and I have two little questions regarding the PSU (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20%20PSU.jpg):

1. under DIP1 I think that's a track missing in the left side of it because now the output of 7815 goes to nowhere
2. in the PSU layout is written that I need a jumper if I use a MAX1044 (I will use an ICL7660 instead)....you wrote me above not to use one....which is the right answer (I think I need the jumper, but...)

And a new one:

3. at the pin 3 of the "Regen" pot is written "To T2"...where is this T2?

Thank you very much!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 04:03:01 AM by gigimarga »

solderman

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #91 on: May 18, 2010, 11:42:18 AM »
Hello again solderman!

I worked on it (but only a short time) and I have two little questions regarding the PSU (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20%20PSU.jpg):

1. under DIP1 I think that's a track missing in the left side of it because now the output of 7815 goes to nowhere

True there is a trace missing  between the legs at the "On" end DIP
Cauchen D9 oriented wrong on the pic in the link. The catode should be pointing at "A"

2. in the PSU layout is written that I need a jumper if I use a MAX1044 (I will use an ICL7660 instead)....you wrote me above not to use one....which is the right answer (I think I need the jumper, but...)
No jumper for ICL7660


And a new one:

3. at the pin 3 of the "Regen" pot is written "To T2"...where is this T2?

T2 is V2 trim pot

Thank you very much!
The only bad sounding stomp box is an unbuilt stomp box. ;-)
//Take Care and build with passion

www.soldersound.com
xSolderman@soldersound.com (exlude x to mail)

gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #92 on: May 18, 2010, 12:35:57 PM »
Thank you very very very much again solderman!

gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #93 on: May 20, 2010, 01:51:23 AM »
I've finished it last night, but it didn't worked (only the "Bias" and "Volume" trimpots works...and with the trimpots from the LFO I can "tweak" a very high frequency whistle)...I heard only very clear the "dry" guitar...I think that's a problem with the wiring, because when I'm switching between odd/even I must to rebias it.


Because it was 2 A.M., I postponed the rechecking/debugging for today.

Anyway, thank you very much again solderman for your help!

solderman

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #94 on: May 20, 2010, 03:01:39 AM »
Hi
Hope you can get it to work. Here are some tips.

1.   Check that you have ~15V at +V and half that at +Vb at both LFO and audio.
2.   Chech that you have 0V att all GDN traces other at the GDN whire and the other end of the GDN trace.
3.   Chech the dip switch or jumpers has tha same connetion as the pic I sent you assuming that you using a MN3007.
4.   Probe the signal path from IN all the way. You vant to have a good signal at pin 3 of the BBD. And a pulsing sort of distorted signal at pin 7-8.
5.   Have all trim pots at 50% to start with.
6.   have depth pot at MIN (on my layout the depth pot is backwards Iīll fix that when I get time) Enhance at 50% and then turn Manual CCW and CW fast and you shall have a sort of a flanging sound when you listen to the input signals.
7.    Check that the threshold is not bothering you by follow what I did and is described in post 68-73

Good luck   
The only bad sounding stomp box is an unbuilt stomp box. ;-)
//Take Care and build with passion

www.soldersound.com
xSolderman@soldersound.com (exlude x to mail)

gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #95 on: May 20, 2010, 03:46:32 AM »
Hi
Hope you can get it to work. Here are some tips.

1.   Check that you have ~15V at +V and half that at +Vb at both LFO and audio.
2.   Chech that you have 0V att all GDN traces other at the GDN whire and the other end of the GDN trace.
3.   Chech the dip switch or jumpers has tha same connetion as the pic I sent you assuming that you using a MN3007.
4.   Probe the signal path from IN all the way. You vant to have a good signal at pin 3 of the BBD. And a pulsing sort of distorted signal at pin 7-8.
5.   Have all trim pots at 50% to start with.
6.   have depth pot at MIN (on my layout the depth pot is backwards Iīll fix that when I get time) Enhance at 50% and then turn Manual CCW and CW fast and you shall have a sort of a flanging sound when you listen to the input signals.
7.    Check that the threshold is not bothering you by follow what I did and is described in post 68-73

Good luck   


Thank you very much solderman!
Until now I've checked only +V and +Vb and there are OK...
I used a J201 for the FET, oriented as in the layout, and a 100K pot for Thresold. It's OK?

gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #96 on: May 20, 2010, 02:25:45 PM »
Hello solderman,

Still not working...
It passed tests 1,2,3...I didn't have time for tests 4 and 7, yet (I hope to have tonight)...test 6 failed :(
By the way, I found an almost perfect solder joint, so I want to recheck all before making test 4.

Anyway, how can I test if the LFO is working with a cheap DMM?

Thx a lot,
Radu



gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #97 on: May 20, 2010, 06:30:42 PM »
Hello solderman,

I debugged it a little and I have half-good news: after I've found another "stupid very good looking solder joint" I was able to get some sounds like a detuned chorus (I don't have a frequency meter), but no "jet-flange".
The bad things:

1. it works only with the odd/even switch open (when I close it the Vb decrease almost to Vb/2...so all my bias is gone)!!!
2. the speed must to be near maximum
3. the enhance pot+trimpot seems to do almost nothing
4. the thresold seems to do nothing, too
5. a very high frequency carrier signal

Now it's 1:30 AM, so I go to bed...maybe tomorrow I will have more luck :)

Thx again solderman!

gigimarga

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #98 on: May 22, 2010, 11:47:30 AM »
I've spent last night over 3 hours trying to debug it, using a PC oscilloscope and an Uglyface as signal generator, but I had no luck.
Maybe the input of my soundcard is limited, but I was able only to get frequencies between 2.000 and 20.000Hz on the pin 13 of 4047 ("Range Max" trimpot seems to have a very little influence). 
After 2 hours, I plugged a Boss BF-2 instead of ADA Flanger (and kept the same settings for Uglyface) and it was more than obviuosly that the waveforms are very different.
Maybe this night I will have more luck...

solderman

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #99 on: May 22, 2010, 05:12:39 PM »
I've spent last night over 3 hours trying to debug it, using a PC oscilloscope and an Uglyface as signal generator, but I had no luck.
Maybe the input of my soundcard is limited, but I was able only to get frequencies between 2.000 and 20.000Hz on the pin 13 of 4047 ("Range Max" trimpot seems to have a very little influence). 
After 2 hours, I plugged a Boss BF-2 instead of ADA Flanger (and kept the same settings for Uglyface) and it was more than obviuosly that the waveforms are very different.
Maybe this night I will have more luck...

Try to probe along the signal way. Focus on getting a signal at each OUT on each OP amp that carry signal.
Also the V2 (T2) is for setting the Enhance level before feedback.

The odd/even error might be the reason to why you donít get it to work . Also try to omit the threshold by cutting the trace from Q1-D under R29.

Check that you have a pumping voltage on pin 7 IC1 on the LFO.
The only bad sounding stomp box is an unbuilt stomp box. ;-)
//Take Care and build with passion

www.soldersound.com
xSolderman@soldersound.com (exlude x to mail)