OT: Recording using a laptop

[John Egerton]

Hey guys.. my band is getting ready to record some stuff and I was wondering if I could use a laptop to do this?

I was thinking of investing in a 4 track but I haven't a clue what the advantages or disadvantages would be... I know I would need some special software for the laptop..

What i was thinking was recording with a mic to my cab, then recording the same way for the bass, then hooking up all the mics for the drums to a mixer unit and feeding that into the laptop.. once everything is done i'd merge them... Or lay down the drums first and record over that...

What would you guys suggest? I mean, we haven't enough cash to spend on recording costs and so i thought with a little effort I could record us ourselves and make a decent job out of it...

Would you reccomend a 4 track or would a laptop with the right software be just as good?

Thanks

John

[Samuel]

Do you have any other recording equipment? If not, the four track provides a much more "all in one" solution as it will have built-in (albeit not very good) mic preamps, some form of EQ, proper connectors, etc. If you have a mixer, though the laptop might do it...

Unlesss you want to spend money on software & potentially I/O equipment I would say the four track is probly the easiest thing. The laptop will, however, give you basically unlimited tracks, but I don't know how far you were planning to get into layering...

[John Egerton]

any suggestions on what software i should use?

Thanks

John

[petemoore]

With cakewalk on it.
 before I reformatted [dumptruck loads of garbage that clogs puters] I was getting dropouts...I guess It has to do with memory and how well your put'ers werkin.
 Reformatting is very dangerous to try without all your codes like serial# for windows...I nearly got shut out of my own puter..and had to mess for days before getting lucky with a # a friend gave me.
 I was getting somewhat frequent dropouts before I reformatted.
 However after reformatting, the thing works great, amazing clarity and ease of operation [at least the limited functions Ive been able to figure out] for midi [only tried for drums by me] and multi track audio recording [8track].
 I've read there is a limit on what how much a P2 will hold without getting dropouts...which put you right back at point A

[Samuel]

For multitrack software, I'm a big fan of Vegas by Sonic Foundry (although I guess they got bought by Sony). It does a lot of video stuff that you don't need, but the multitrack interface is the simplest and best I've used. Cakewalk definitely does the job, and if you want MIDI you don't want Vegas. CuBase VST is a very powerful program, but the user interface, if you're not familiar, will make your head spin.

If you are looking for something on the dirt cheap, I seem to remember that the author of the two track editor GoldWave was working on multitrack software, but this was years ago and I don't know if it got done / became shareware, etc.

Thing is, all these software packages, if you're playing this legit, are big bucks. I don't know if there is a cheap multitrack alternative out there.

[dubs]

You may have to shell out quite alot if you want a decent laptop setup. DO you want to go PC or Apple? PC laptops can be a hassle in that you will need to fiddle alot with settings etc in order to get the thing working efficiently. Apple has better simpliocity in that you plug it in and play with minimum hassles.
To use a laptop you'll need some sort of soundcard. Since laptops don;t have PCI slots, your options are for either a firwire port or usb port connection.

I use Cubase because of it's good range of features & simplicity.
Alot of my friends who use portable recording setups use G4 laptops, Motu 828MkII and Logic audio software as you can import Protools files into it (Protools is the industry std for recording).  it seems to be the general std professional setup.
 
IN terms of speed and capability both are on par  with each other.
Checkout www.audioforums.com or www.recording.org
there are alot of pros there who can help you out.

[cd]

If you don't already have a multi-track interface for your laptop (one that can handle 4 or more inputs at once) you'll have to spend $200-$2000 for a decent setup (assuming you have a powerful enough computer to handle recording in the first place) - most of the $ is for the interface (multiple input Cardbus soundcard, or an external Firewire or USB device) plus the software (usually included with most devices.)

That's if you want to record multiple tracks on the computer... if all you're going to do is take the stereo output from your mixer and put that in the computer... should be fine, as long as the computer has built in sound.  Of course, you could also do this with a regular cassette deck.

I guess you're in a bit of a pinch - since you have a mixer, the mixing facility of a 4-track is not needed, but you can't record multiple tracks with a plane jane computer.  FWIW I was in the same predicament, and went with a 4-track.  Easier to setup and use, good for rough mixes, but its primary advantage was (for me) extremely low cost (I think I paid $60 for a used one.)

[Ge_Whiz]

My laptop runs recording software just fine but doesn't have a decent input, just a crappy single-channel mic input that is very noisy - I had to buy an external SB unit to get the best out of it.

Meanwhile, I thoroughly recommend the Zoom MRS-4 4-track digital recorder. Steep learning curve at first, but it works well and sounds extremely good. About £200 in the UK.

[aron]

Hey guys.. my band is getting ready to record some stuff and I was wondering if I could use a laptop to do this?

John,

I do this all the time.

I bought a Presonus Firestation, but you could get the m-audio Firewire interface.

Basically, 8 ins, 8 outs etc... using Firewire.

I would not recommend USB for multi-track work with multiple inputs in general.

I use an Apple Powerbook G4 and I can record the band (8 inputs) no problem on the internal hard drive. I upgraded my hard drive to a faster one than the stock one, but generally hard drive speed is not as much a factor as you might think.

The biggest change in the recording landscape is the use of native plug-ins and these can really give your mixes a professional sound. Compressors, reverbs, delays, simulators etc... can really enhance your production.

For recording I use Emagic Logic on both my PC and Macintosh. Unfortunately, it's been cancelled for the PC and I cannot recommend a replacement that I like. I hope Sonar 3 will be good.... we will see.

My friend got a Centrino Laptop for about $1500 and he said it's good.

So the answer is YES, you can do it and with the right software it's amazing.

I just scored another commercial using Emagic Logic - all software synthesizers for a 60 second TV spot. Used a QuickTime movie as the referrence.

It's pretty amazing now.

[MartyB]

Hey John,

     Aron's suggestion of eMagic Logic is great.  There's a simpler version of it called micrologic that can still be had cheaply on eBay, for example.  I believe it's the same as Logic 3.6.  Pretty good for someone just starting to record with PC.  The Logic Audio stuff is REALLY flexible, if not intuitive.  Anyway, I like it for my home recording.  My version came included with my soundcard and breakout interface box.  I think either an interface or a small mixer would be good for live recording.  From what I hear alot of the pros use the updated versions of emagic's Logic Audio in the studio.

MartyB[/i]

[hank reynolds 3rd]

use soulseek and d/l cubase (sx is damn good...works on win2000 and up) or logic.....  :twisted:  :evil:

i use an m audio delta 44 (i think they're discontinued now)..... works fine!!! 4 ins/outs....i think they got one now with midi and mic i/p's for quite cheap....
and away you go!!!!

sam

[John Egerton]

Basically I just bought a new laptop and did a clean reinstall on it and installed only the bare essensials for windows... I've optimised it all for sound recording however the laptop only has a stereo input jack and mic input jack...

What I was hoping for was to first hook up the drum mics to the mixer and lay down the drum track, then mic up the guitar cab and lay down that track, and the same for the bass... I can the do vocals later on...

Is this possible? Cause I can just burn the song to CD afterwards and wipe all the junk that these softwares dump on your hard drive..

Will the output of the mixer be ok going into the mic/line input jack?

Also... How do i know what volume level to pass to the laptop? As high volumes tend to make these kinds of software crackle.


Thanks

John

[aron]

Is this possible? .

Yes it is possible. There's no way to tell what the quality will be until you try it.

Basically the mixer outputs (line out) will go into the laptop. You will probably need a 1/8" mini to two 1/4" jacks to interface the mixer to the laptop.

Then you use recording software - there are a number of available ones. Here are a few off the top of my head:

Cubase (any version that supports audio)
Tracktion <- seems good and low cost!
Cakewalk
Sonar 3
Cool Edit
Audacity <-- not really ready yet, but maybe soon. Free

The software will have level meters so you will be able to see if you are clipping etc...

aron

[keko]

I think you might want to get it simple first.

If you can, get everything into a mixer, then use the laptop (either mac or pc) only as a recording medium (not multitrack). you might try CoolEdit, nice and simple. Then move to CoolEdit Pro for multitrack.

Sonar, Cakewalk, Cubase, (and Logic, I think) are more that multi-track recording software; they are sequencers, meaning you can record digital audio AND record/playback midi data, allowing for much complex musical arrangements.

Recording all at once will give you several chances to get the songs right, without needing expensive software, nor hardware (i.g free hard drive space).

Once you are acquainted (spelling???) with software recording, you might try multitrack softwares. I think it will keep the frustration level lower doing things this way. (just imagine you get your drums on one track; with a standard laptop, you'll have to fight to get that recorded track to play in sync with the new track being recorded, guitar for instance, using the built-in soundcard)

...BTW, last sunday I recorded a rehearsal of my band.....using my laptop's built in mic. I had to turn the input level to bare minimum, but I got a *decent* sound...ok for a live sound.

good luck

[william]

One of the things to consider is how many tracks will need to be recorded at once?  Any decent computer can be used as a multitrack recorder.  But getting the audio into the computer is a major problem.  If your micing a drum set, you'll need atleast eight inputs, and some of the mic's may require 48V phantom power.  The best way to get exactly what you want is to figure out what you need.  

If your goal is to record the drummer in a live setting, the go back and dub all the other parts one at a time, I would suggest 6 mic's.  A kick mic, Snare, a mic for the higher tom's, , one for the low tom, and two overhead mic's.  So at a minimum I would want six mic inputs.  I would also get a basic tracking of the other instruments so I would group those into a scrach track.  So that totals eight.  

If your playing to a drum machine, you could make due with only two inputs, and then record the rest one item at a time.  As for software, there is a large amount of options you could use.  I use a comination of Cakewalk for midi, and Cubase for audio.  I also have used aPro Tools TDM system while getting my degree.  

The speed of the computer does matter.  Most mid to high priced notebooks will do fine.  Avoid notebooks that use the intel centrino processor.  Although I haven't read anything reguarding its recording performance, its powersaving options might negativly affect recording.  An apple powerbook is an excellent choice but again, avoid the Ibook.  The powerbook will give you more flexablility and options.  

The biggest drawback to the Mac platform currently is that its kind of a two horse race right now, Pro Tools and Logic.  Pro tools has the benifit of being an industry standard.  Logic benifits by being owned by Apple.  The drawback for the PC market isn't that its running windows or unstable, but that there are many more options as far as setup goes.  Setting up a PC for recording can be a minefield if the parts are not researched.  

Some suggestions for the PC side of things would be,
The WinBook M201  at $1,299.00
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0162945

with a MOTU 828mkII FireWire Hard Disk Recording System  at $750
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=030926164747209240071021388574/g=rec/search?sc=price&so=asc&d=tp&c=9117

Then use one of the free recording packages mentioned.  That would be a pretty good recording solution at right about 2000 dollars.

If you've already got a computer, The digidesign Mbox is a good choice, plus it comes with Pro Tools LE, which is easy to learn and will do what your looking for without making things tough.  Keep an eye on Ebay, and I'm sure you could find a deal.  You could then record a stereo mix of the whole drum set minus the Kick and the Snare.  Run the kick and the Snare right into the Mic in's of the Mbox.   This will allow you to adjust the level between the three without much concern of screwing it up at the start.

Most applications will show you if your clipping the input of the computer, just keep an eye on your level indicators.

William

[aron]

The speed of the computer does matter. Most mid to high priced notebooks will do fine. Avoid notebooks that use the intel centrino processor. Although I haven't read anything reguarding its recording performance, its powersaving options might negativly affect recording.

The Centrino has proven to be as fast as a P4.

My friend uses a Toshiba 1.6Ghz Centrino and it gets 41-45 Platinum verbs at once. This equates to a P4 @ 2.4Ghz.

The battery seems to last long as well.

[Gilles C]

I was sold on Cakewalk because of the guitar stuff, but for recording, I now prefer Wave Lab wich is faster and friendlier I think.

http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM02/Content/Steinberg/PR/WaveLab-40.html

That's what my bro-in-law uses on his laptop with no problem at all.

But I can't remember what hardware he is using for sound input. I'm sure it's not a SB box or card cause he is a pro (working as a sound tech).

The CD burning stuff is very good.

Gilles

[cd]

Nothing wrong with a Centrino.  Clock for clock, it's faster than a P4.  Intel has to go against their own marketing hype this time, they've spent so much effort getting the P4 to insane clock speeds (with a low amount of work per clock cycle) that the more efficient Centrino has an image problem... yes, it runs slower but it does more... same thing AMD and Apple have been trying to do for years (but I digress.)

I wouldn't be scared off an iBook either for basic stuff, unless you need a PC Card interface or your plugins require a G4, even the basic model is plenty fast.  The biggest limitation is... well, it's limitations.  Low RAM ceiling (only one slot), no PC Card slot, (not that big of a deal if you're using a Firewire interface, but if you ever want to add a PCI chassis, you're stuck), HD is impossible to upgrade yourself (it's possible, but it takes a couple of hours if you're good).