Author Topic: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  (Read 311029 times)

Govmnt_Lacky

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2010, 07:26:26 PM »
Might be a stupid question but...

Could the LDR and LED be replaced by a Vactrol? Might be a "bigger" component but, could it be done with the likes of a VTL5C2 or VTL5C3?
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Quackzed

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2010, 07:32:33 PM »
i was thinking how you could  have it behave more like a tone pot being turned on and off fast...
i was thinking you might be able to precede it with a high impedence output, and that the low dark resistance would roll off highs... but it would also be rolling off level  so i'm not sure it would work... or it would be minimal ,like a guitar volume pot.

But! you could just put a cap between the ldr and ground, and then its a tone pot... with like a .01uf cap it should be pretty audible..
like a wah-wah switch.
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Barcode80

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2010, 12:01:19 AM »
Might be a stupid question but...

Could the LDR and LED be replaced by a Vactrol? Might be a "bigger" component but, could it be done with the likes of a VTL5C2 or VTL5C3?
Yes, the parts are one and the same. A vactrol is an LDR and LED packaged into one component.

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2010, 04:59:46 AM »
i was thinking how you could  have it behave more like a tone pot being turned on and off fast...
i was thinking you might be able to precede it with a high impedence output, and that the low dark resistance would roll off highs... but it would also be rolling off level  so i'm not sure it would work... or it would be minimal ,like a guitar volume pot.

But! you could just put a cap between the ldr and ground, and then its a tone pot... with like a .01uf cap it should be pretty audible..
like a wah-wah switch.

cheers gil..i'll try that today..... :icon_cool:



« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 05:23:54 AM by deadastronaut »
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Quackzed

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #64 on: October 04, 2010, 11:02:45 AM »
i remember one guitar i used different caps, (i think smaller than stock.022-maybe .01 or even .001) for the tone pots, it did almost nothing when tone was barely rolled off, but at the allmost all the way off side it had this 'wah' type sound from like 0-3 where i could roll it on/off
with my finger for a wah type sound. if you try a few different caps sizes to put between the ldr and ground, you should be able to get some 'auto wah' type filter sounds... you could parallel the cap with a spst, to short around it, when you want normal trem operation...
i'd try .1 .01 and .001 at first ,just to see how much treble they each roll off via the ldr and go from there...  8)
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deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2010, 11:33:00 AM »
cheers gil. sounds like a good idea!..i think i understand you now!..

just a thought!..if i use another led/ldr into a cap would this work,?? hmmmm. :icon_idea:

sounds like it might...thinking logically...(for a change ha ha) hmmm maybe not as it needs to sweep eh?...

i worked out a 'train lights' 555 circuit, one goes on and one goes off ...just for fun!..but it could be used in some mad way...

panning etc.....but that would have to be a 556....

just thinking aloud..!!!!!!...rob.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 11:39:21 AM by deadastronaut »
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deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2010, 12:10:36 PM »
one hit each..trying all nf's...22/33/47/100/220/470/ ...hmmmm...

clip removed :...


« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 01:01:07 PM by deadastronaut »
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Quackzed

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2010, 12:48:01 PM »
i dont know if i can hear it?
are you doing it like this in/out----ldr--------cap-------ground
the ldr cant have any other path to ground other than the cap ,i think, for it to work like a tone pot.
like if you put the cap in parallel with the depth pot it wouldn't be very hearable over the tremolo...
you'd need to basically put the cap where the depth pot was...
not sure if thats how you did it or not... but i cant tell... :-\
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deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2010, 12:56:08 PM »
i dont know if i can hear it?
are you doing it like this in/out----ldr--------cap-------ground
the ldr cant have any other path to ground other than the cap ,i think, for it to work like a tone pot.
like if you put the cap in parallel with the depth pot it wouldn't be very hearable over the tremolo...
you'd need to basically put the cap where the depth pot was...
not sure if thats how you did it or not... but i cant tell... :-\

hi yeah!...erm...lol..

i had it...in and out into one side of the ldr i think.....then a cap on the other end to ground,
i'll do a slower sample now...ok. (my mates been bugging me about something else so i may have got confused ok) ;)
new sample coming in a bit...

here ya go..same order of caps..22/33/47/100/220/470/ nf

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/newcapsample.mp3
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 01:02:15 PM by deadastronaut »
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Quackzed

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2010, 01:44:15 PM »
thanks for trying it out.  ;D.

so it sounds like its just tremoloing the highs,like a tone pot. 8) -and as the caps get bigger toward the end of the clip it sounds more like a straight tremolo, as the cutoff frequency goes down and more of the signal is tremo-ed.
if you liked the sound of just tremoloing the highs you could do a 'cap blend pot' type setup there with  a pot for .001 only very highs get trem to 1uf full frequency trem...

---ldr-----------(.001uf)--------ground
        l ---o  o--o---(+1uf)---ground
             100kb
               pot
this seems like more of a 'mod' people may or may not want to incorporate in their builds...
a bit of a -cut highs only -variation on what the depth pot is doing...



i wonder what it would soundlike if you had just lows when the highs were being cut (on)- then just highs with the lows cut during the (off)cycle...
 ??? ::) :P
o.k. i've gone too far...

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Renegadrian

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2010, 04:28:03 PM »
Smaller vero layout, tested and working...Hope you enjoy it!!! Some ticking here... :icon_sad:

« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 06:12:06 PM by Renegadrian »
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Perrow

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #71 on: October 04, 2010, 06:37:47 PM »
Smaller vero layout, tested and working...Hope you enjoy it!!! Some ticking here... :icon_sad:

So, you're challenging me to do it on 40 "squares", well I can do that. I'll even reintroduce the rate led ground connection.



Ps. Thanks to Renegadrian for pointing out that pins 4 and 5 were NC's and that the cap was an electrolyt.

Pps. I realized that you can do a true bypass with status led for this circuit with a 2pdt! At least if your doing the bleed to ground version, which my pcb designs are :)
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Renegadrian

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #72 on: October 04, 2010, 06:43:42 PM »
Ps. Thanks to Renegadrian for pointing out that pins 4 and 5 were NC's and that the cap was an electrolyt.

Well, just my very little contribution to the forum...I do love to lay things with vero, and I'm glad to share...
yes as pins 4 and 5 are not used, you can use some extra space just leaving them unsoldered, or even better trimmed, as I did on mine.
Done an' workin'=Too many to mention - Tube addict!

Ripdivot

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2010, 12:10:25 AM »
Here is a way to add a mode switch so you can switch the LDR to be in series (more chop) with the signal or pulling signal to ground (standard).



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deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2010, 04:32:47 AM »
hi gil , yep i think i'll keep it simple after all....thanks for your input on this, well worth trying it . cheers rob.

@adrian. now that is tiny!!!! nice.....uh oh...so you get a bit of clicking on it then ????

@perrow,nice one!..could you show the switch/jack/led connections for your pcb too!?...just to be clear on that! :icon_mrgreen:
i thought we'd get away with not usind a 3pdt!..just werent sure of the wiring on it.

@ripdivot. nice one on the switch....what if a small toggle were used to turn depth pot off to get original chop???.

nice one guys looks like its job done on this then!...apart from any click?....taylor mentioned earlier that we might
get clicking, he suggested using a cmos 555 in case of that, cheers taylor!..will try it if mine clicks when its off the bread board!..

i love this forum..... :icon_cool:

right now for the next tiny project.... :icon_mrgreen: a  flanger using 1 resistor and a 10k pot, but making noise with your mouth :icon_mrgreen:




« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 04:41:43 AM by deadastronaut »
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Perrow

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #75 on: October 05, 2010, 07:26:41 AM »
hi gil , yep i think i'll keep it simple after all....thanks for your input on this, well worth trying it . cheers rob.

@adrian. now that is tiny!!!! nice.....uh oh...so you get a bit of clicking on it then ????

@perrow,nice one!..could you show the switch/jack/led connections for your pcb too!?...just to be clear on that! :icon_mrgreen:
i thought we'd get away with not usind a 3pdt!..just werent sure of the wiring on it.

@ripdivot. nice one on the switch....what if a small toggle were used to turn depth pot off to get original chop???.

nice one guys looks like its job done on this then!...apart from any click?....taylor mentioned earlier that we might
get clicking, he suggested using a cmos 555 in case of that, cheers taylor!..will try it if mine clicks when its off the bread board!..

i love this forum..... :icon_cool:

right now for the next tiny project.... :icon_mrgreen: a  flanger using 1 resistor and a 10k pot, but making noise with your mouth :icon_mrgreen:

Ok, so let's see we want no ticking, I'll solve that by separating signal path from circuit (signal and ground).

Show switches, see below.

Depth pot only for bleed mode, check.

Love this forum, check.

Two component flanger (not counting mouth), I'll let you work on that one  :icon_mrgreen:



I thought about showing connections for power, leds (all four: rate, bleed, in line, bypass) and rate pot, but for clarity I decided against it :)

Let's see, two phono jacks, two switches, four leds, two led resistors and two pots. Thats 12 components off board to control a curcuit of five components. 2.2:1 ratio  ::) And I haven't even considered battery snap and/or dc jack!

Edit: Sorry, no dpdt bypass with led. Need to switch both in and out. Mind you, if you don't want the bleed/inline switch, you're safe with a 2pst just breaking the ground connection from the ldr (and a led on the other pole).

Edit 2: Almost forgot to post a pcb image for this one.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 07:36:01 AM by Perrow »
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blooze_man

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Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2010, 04:35:33 PM »
Built it and it works. The only thing is that when it's set on a high speed, the light from the LED is enough to keep signal going through the LDR all the time so I'm unable to get a fast tremolo. I know it's possible from listening to the sound clip. Can anyone tell me exactly what kind of LED/LDR is being used?
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daverdave

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2010, 04:49:20 PM »
I reckon most people are just making their own. Generally ldrs have a pretty slow decay time, a couple of silonext optocouplers state pretty fast decay times (well fast enough).
If you want to make a faster home made optocoupler then I'd check out datasheets for a quick ldr, again, I think silonex do some with a fast decay.

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #78 on: October 06, 2010, 02:52:33 AM »
Built it and it works. The only thing is that when it's set on a high speed, the light from the LED is enough to keep signal going through the LDR all the time so I'm unable to get a fast tremolo. I know it's possible from listening to the sound clip. Can anyone tell me exactly what kind of LED/LDR is being used?

@bloozeman.i used a standard 5mm red led with a 5k ldr....and i get fast trem out of it...

@perrow.. why the pin 4 connection?...

also i just read this about noise!..pin 5..is this relevant to clicking in some way!!!!!..?

pin 5Control input: this can be used to adjust the threshold voltage which is set internally to be 2/3 Vs. Usually this function is not required and the control input is connected to 0V with a 0.01F capacitor to eliminate electrical noise. It can be left unconnected if noise is not a problem.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 03:50:55 AM by deadastronaut »
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deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOO also 'NEW' 'tiny pan'/stereo panner
« Reply #79 on: October 06, 2010, 08:48:13 AM »
scratch this post.....moved to another thread!..
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 12:17:44 PM by deadastronaut »
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