Author Topic: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  (Read 322776 times)

MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #200 on: November 16, 2010, 11:09:30 AM »
@deadastronaut - I don't have a breadboard... I'm looking at the schematic from page 3 and then looking at the vero layout you guys posted and seeing differences. In the schematic you have the depth pot controlling the LDR. In the vero layout you have it controlling the LED. The schematic also has the negative lead of the LED (the one that points at the LDR) going to nowhere in the schematic but going to ground in the vero layout. Mine is connected to ground...

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #201 on: November 16, 2010, 11:44:31 AM »
ahhhhh i see where your coming from now....
yep all leds go to ground .. i missed that symbol....
the vero on page 2 (below) is correct....the depth controls the led...but  both methods will work!...
as with all projects they get changed/improved or simply end up with a  different way of doing the same thing...
as perrow did with his pcb version too.....
i cant recommend buying a cheap breadboard enough!..try em out first..ive made lots of stuff thats ended up in the bin,or shelf..
thats normal if not annoying..but now i bread everything.it saves money time and waste..and above all frustration..
but these small projects can be knocked up and tried in minutes..literally..
hope this helps. rob.


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MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #202 on: November 16, 2010, 03:29:32 PM »
I'm back after 2 hours of tearing my hair out trying to figure this out. I discovered that I put in a .47uf cap instead of a 47uf.   :icon_redface: But the trouble doesn't stop there. I tried a different 556 to make sure its not the IC but i'm getting the same results. The datasheet says that the threshold and trigger pins must be connected for astable operation, which from what I gather is what we're using here. Mine are connected but i'm still getting what appears to be monostable operation. After changing the cap i've discovered that now I can vary the length that the LED stays on when you initially power up the circuit, but it still only comes on once and then shuts off completely. After that i'm getting no voltage on the output pin whatsoever. I've checked my connections probably 50 times and everything seems to be in order. There has to be something i'm missing though. I checked the resistor to make sure and its a 470 ohm, just like in the schematic. Red LED with a 270 ohm current limiting resistor and a blue super bright for a rate LED with something like a 330 ohm resistor.

Vcc is ~ 8.9-9v
Discharge is ~0.2v
Threshold is ~ 8.9-9v
Control is ~ 5.6-5.9v
Reset is ~ 0.2v
Output is 0v (after it shuts off from the initial startup)
Trigger is ~ 8.9-9v (because its connected to Threshold)

I'm not sure it matters but I used the 'side B' of the 556 rather than the 'side A.' It shouldn't make a difference though as each side is supposed to function independently.

p_wats

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #203 on: November 16, 2010, 10:05:53 PM »
I've been following this thread for a long time, excited to find spare moments to build this little guy. Unfortunately, I've breadboarded it several different ways and the ticking just won't go away no matter what (470uf cap from + to - doesn't work for me, neither does messing with the grounds).

It's soooo close!

MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #204 on: November 16, 2010, 10:24:46 PM »
It's soooo close!

Tell me about it. I've gone over the schematic and layouts time and time again looking for errors, moved things around and read datasheets for the 555 and 556 over and over. I still can't figure it out. The signal path works great and the speed control even works but I can't get the 556 to run in astable mode for some reason. So I get about 2.5 seconds of sound and then a complete cut-out...

I read somewhere that the reset pin should be connected to Vcc in astable mode, but I connected mine and I still get the same effect. I've tried 2 different 556 IC's and even wired an extra socket to try 'side A' of one of the 556's with no luck.

The only thing I have different about mine is that I have current limiting resistors in series with the positive leads of the LED's. But I don't see that it would make a difference since i'm still not getting any output voltage from the 556.

I have a 555 sitting here but I don't see how it would matter if I wired it in place of the 556. I'm hesitant to build another one since i've put 4 hours into troubleshooting this first one and its still royalling kicking my ass. Plus I was saving the 555 for when I get a PCB for this project but I still haven't recieved one... At this rate I might just give in and abandon it.

And its not like i'm brand new at this. I've built several pedals and battery amps in the past, but this is the first circuit this simple that has ever had its foot up my butt...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 10:30:02 PM by MetalUpYerEye »

MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #205 on: November 17, 2010, 01:29:10 AM »
Sorry for the double post.

I got my 555/6 timer working. It actually wasn't my fault... There is a mistake on that schematic. Lug 1 of the 47k speed pot should go to the other side of the 470r resistor and to pin 7, rather than to pin 8 as the schematic reads. The vero layout is correct though.

Now I have to get the signal part working... Ugh. After this i'm done with *simple* projects...  :P

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #206 on: November 17, 2010, 05:02:00 AM »
man i cant believe you guys are having so much grief......
renegadrian did say there was a bit of ticking on it, but i thought we got rid of that..

ok..im going to bread this again with a 555.. (without the depth too, and go back to the basics)
just to see where any problem may lie ok.

btw..i didnt use superbrights either. ......i used a 3mm red for the rate led...
and a 5mm red for the ldr...
and i never had to use resistors on them either.(though that is the general rule on them)..
back later. rob.

edit: right ive got it ok guys...


i used a normal 555 and yes it ticked...even with a 100uf across + -
i just tried a cmos 555 and no ticking at all...and without the 100 + - too...what a difference..!yay!. :icon_mrgreen:
very very quiet...the rate 3mm led is very dimmed though...but all sounds ok..

btw the pot goes to pins 6 and 7....not pin 1 as in the schematic ok...
i remember taylor saying about the cmos chip being better early in this thread.....thanks taylor you was right...no ticking here..
i only get the slightest of ticks but my level on fader and gain on mixer has to be full on...which would never be used...
i think any noise you may get would be the ldr on and off...but only if the level is ridiculously high and unusable...

so use a cmos 555........sorted......

heres a soundclip ok of the cmos 555..i'll play a chord and let it ring..
this is with the fader full on on my mixer..then i turn the trim gain up full too...so you can hear it ok...
but you would never use this level setting...
watch ya speakers ........

hope this helps guys...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tremclicktest1sorted.mp3

ok what do you think ...im glad i revisited this as i want to make the trem/wah/trem wah out of it...

cmos rules!

i'll edit the vero and the schematic and post ok...for the definitive final project ok...

here ya go..




 :icon_cool:

« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 08:13:29 AM by deadastronaut »
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MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #207 on: November 17, 2010, 10:29:26 AM »
Thanks Rob!  ;D It shouldn't take me long to sort my input section now that I have the timer going. I like a 22uf cap instead of 47uf. It lowers the maximum length of the wobble but has a much better sweep than the 47uf. The super bright seems to be working fine and i'm only using it as a rate LED, since I had some sitting around. I'm keeping my grounds separate and going to try a 220uf cap to eliminate ticking. Should be ok...  ::)

... Your v2 schemo still has the resistor in the wrong place...  :-[ *runs away*

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #208 on: November 17, 2010, 11:12:27 AM »
::)

... Your v2 schemo still has the resistor in the wrong place...  :-[ *runs away*

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:
im not using the depth mod anyway....so sod it......i like the chop which isnt too harsh for me...and it keeps it simple...like me!.. :icon_wink:

im having a beer now... :icon_cool:

rob.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 11:23:16 AM by deadastronaut »
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Manny

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #209 on: November 17, 2010, 11:42:13 AM »
Hey Rob,

I'm having a similar issue with not being able to get my 555 to run in astable mode.
Its an NE555 however, may need to try the CMOS one.  ???

@MetalUpYerEye, you mention the speed pot lugs being incorrect in the diagram, and that lug 1 should go to pin 7. Can you explain this a bit further?

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #210 on: November 17, 2010, 11:57:37 AM »
Hey Rob,

I'm having a similar issue with not being able to get my 555 to run in astable mode.
Its an NE555 however, may need to try the CMOS one.  ???

@MetalUpYerEye, you mention the speed pot lugs being incorrect in the diagram, and that lug 1 should go to pin 7. Can you explain this a bit further?

hi manny, yep the cmos does the trick...
but i had this running originally on a bog standard 555..it just ticked...
lug 2 to pin 6 and lug 3 to 7...i have it working this way in front of me as i type...
im using a 10k pot just coz i had it out..and seems ok too..
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MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #211 on: November 17, 2010, 12:06:45 PM »
I got mine sorted and working now. I'm having a bit of ticking even with the 220uf. I might just rebuild/rework with a CMOS 555.

I'm also getting a pop sound every time the LDR clicks back on. There's a bit of extra noise in there but I think its because I just have the circuit laying out on my carpet with extra long leads on all the pots, jacks, etc.

The ticking I can take care of. Any ideas on the pop?

Manny

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #212 on: November 17, 2010, 12:17:23 PM »
Hey Rob,

I'm having a similar issue with not being able to get my 555 to run in astable mode.
Its an NE555 however, may need to try the CMOS one.  ???

@MetalUpYerEye, you mention the speed pot lugs being incorrect in the diagram, and that lug 1 should go to pin 7. Can you explain this a bit further?

hi manny, yep the cmos does the trick...
but i had this running originally on a bog standard 555..it just ticked...
lug 2 to pin 6 and lug 3 to 7...i have it working this way in front of me as i type...
im using a 10k pot just coz i had it out..and seems ok too..

Cheers Rob,
I'll knock it up on BB quickly and see if it works this way.  :)

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #213 on: November 17, 2010, 12:27:53 PM »
just as a note,

i just tried 4 different 555's..and they all behaved slightly differently..

2 of the standard 555' got really f ****g hot....burn ya fingers stuff...so dont use em..(especially on carpets lol)...
i remember someone else saying that they got hot.. ..maybe the standard 555 need lower voltage..i dunno..i'll read the sheet on em i guess ha ha..

but both the cmos 555's are good as gold...but they do vary in the speed.slightly....i guess theres some kind of tolerance in em...
but no heat.....

hmmm...............
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Barcode80

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #214 on: November 17, 2010, 12:33:28 PM »
just as a note,

i just tried 4 different 555's..and they all behaved slightly differently..

2 of the standard 555' got really f ****g hot....burn ya fingers stuff...so dont use em..(especially on carpets lol)...
i remember someone else saying that they got hot.. ..maybe the standard 555 need lower voltage..i dunno..i'll read the sheet on em i guess ha ha..

but both the cmos 555's are good as gold...but they do vary in the speed.slightly....i guess theres some kind of tolerance in em...
but no heat.....

hmmm...............

yeah, this was my result with the radio shack 555. It got hot enough to burn my finger sore for a copule of hours. It did work though, mostly.

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #215 on: November 17, 2010, 12:44:37 PM »
just as a note,

i just tried 4 different 555's..and they all behaved slightly differently..

2 of the standard 555' got really f ****g hot....burn ya fingers stuff...so dont use em..(especially on carpets lol)...
i remember someone else saying that they got hot.. ..maybe the standard 555 need lower voltage..i dunno..i'll read the sheet on em i guess ha ha..

but both the cmos 555's are good as gold...but they do vary in the speed.slightly....i guess theres some kind of tolerance in em...
but no heat.....

hmmm...............

yeah, this was my result with the radio shack 555. It got hot enough to burn my finger sore for a copule of hours. It did work though, mostly.

yeah mad eh... i just looked at the data sheets for the 555 and the cmos....they can take up to 15-18v..so i dont really see how them ones get hot on 9v..
weird..have to read up on em a bit i think...always a good idea...
the 555 will run at 1.5v apparently ...so maybe they need a regulator????...just thinking aloud...
but in the end the cmos is fine...
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Manny

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #216 on: November 17, 2010, 12:54:37 PM »
Hi Guys,

I just breadboarded this following the vero layout rather than the schem.
I'm using the NE555 (pound shop at bitsbox for those in the UK) and previously it was either hot enough to fry eggs on or would bust any LEDs I used.

I stuck a 1.1k resistor in series with the leds and it's all working fine now.
I've not got the LDR running as I just wanted to get the LEDs working. I'll give it a go soon and post results though.

I'm over the moon to finally have this working after so much head scratching. I hope this helps others!  ;D

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #217 on: November 17, 2010, 01:19:23 PM »
Hi Guys,

I just breadboarded this following the vero layout rather than the schem.
I'm using the NE555 (pound shop at bitsbox for those in the UK) and previously it was either hot enough to fry eggs on or would bust any LEDs I used.

I stuck a 1.1k resistor in series with the leds and it's all working fine now.
I've not got the LDR running as I just wanted to get the LEDs working. I'll give it a go soon and post results though.

I'm over the moon to finally have this working after so much head scratching. I hope this helps others!  ;D


nice one manny its nice to hear a result....yeah bits box is brilliant...it looks like its got to be cmos 555's in the end..
its funny on my first posts on this project page 1, i was using a standard 555, i just must not have noticed i could cook eggs on it..
while it was on my board....oh well i know how to make a very small hob..ha ha...

yep post results arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, we have to hear it....finally... :icon_mrgreen:

as a note: ive tried the superbrights on this cmos...loads of em...but the rate led has to be standard red.3 or..5m even...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 01:22:34 PM by deadastronaut »
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Perrow

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #218 on: November 17, 2010, 02:08:07 PM »



 :icon_cool:

???

The different positions of the 470r resistor between pin 7 and 8 is a)intentional or b)just plain wrong in one of the schematics?

 
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MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #219 on: November 17, 2010, 02:28:38 PM »
Its correct in the v1 schematic, wrong in the v2.

Thats what had me and a few other guys tearing our hair out for the past couple days. They must have built it from the schematic too.

Did you guys discuss the idea of putting a 5k resistor in parallel with the LDR to get whatever LDR one might have down close to 5k?