Author Topic: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  (Read 322857 times)

askwho69

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #660 on: April 21, 2011, 10:57:28 PM »
Hey
Rob, i finally made your tremolOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO its sounds very nice but! i have some questions

1.) where did you place your trem? after distortion or before dist?
2.) did you experience volume loss? when engage?
3.) because it has same output input there are plenty of clean guitar is going in("without tremolo effect " even max depth) is the version 1 pure tremolo?
4.) when i boost the guitar signal using clean boost the tremolo effect is not very audible when depth is in 9-1 o'clock i think?
5.) how can we attach a output buffer if the in/out is same?

Thanks alot for designing this wonderful effect:D
"To live is to die"

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #661 on: April 22, 2011, 08:41:41 AM »
Hey
Rob, i finally made your tremolOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO its sounds very nice but! i have some questions

1.) where did you place your trem? after distortion or before dist?
2.) did you experience volume loss? when engage?
3.) because it has same output input there are plenty of clean guitar is going in("without tremolo effect " even max depth) is the version 1 pure tremolo?
4.) when i boost the guitar signal using clean boost the tremolo effect is not very audible when depth is in 9-1 o'clock i think?
5.) how can we attach a output buffer if the in/out is same?

Thanks alot for designing this wonderful effect:D

uhuh..yep..had volume loss..a bit.
i only use mine on clean stuff..and for recording only.(i dont gig anymore)..so later in the chain is fine by me..
when its boosted it will overide/push the ldr...thats why you wont hear the effect..
the buffer idea is a pain as you rightly say, the in is also the out...so a buffer would affect both..
the problem lies with the ldr really...maybe a buffer on the depth output might help..but am not sure on that..
but its great for its simplicity as is. and was an interesting project, i learned a lot along the way.. :icon_cool:
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askwho69

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #662 on: April 22, 2011, 09:08:53 AM »
sad! so this thing  is good for clean lines and home recording . . im planning to use this on gigs so i will change my tremolo then :( i like the simplicity but thats what can we get from it :D but still im happy with my result though... gonna try pulsar :D
"To live is to die"

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #663 on: April 22, 2011, 09:15:36 AM »
yep!..

if i were to redsign it , i would go for a different lfo, and have a buffer too....

just a thought though, maybe a buffer from the depth out would work.....as the ldr seems to be the culprit...maybe!.. :icon_wink:
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thedefog

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #664 on: April 29, 2011, 01:54:51 PM »
sad! so this thing  is good for clean lines and home recording . . im planning to use this on gigs so i will change my tremolo then :( i like the simplicity but thats what can we get from it :D but still im happy with my result though... gonna try pulsar :D

I built a Pulsar and I sold it right away because I thought it was probably the worst sounding tremolo I ever played through.

JRM

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #665 on: May 24, 2011, 10:32:01 AM »
Hi guys, I'm back to this tiny tremolo build (spent a lot of time with other effects I'm building) and I was surprised with the developments since my last post (17! pages ago).
Now we have common ground for signal and power (which is great as I can put it on my multi-fx board), a new IC, a new R2 and lots of new info although not summarised as it's spread trough the massive 34 pages of the thread.
1- The first problem I have is that i can't find a low power TS555CN on my suppliers, just the regular 555CMOS chip. It will work without ticking? How should I wire it, I mean, is there any difference appart from not connect pin 4 to pin 5?
2- LDR should have a 1MOhm off (dark) resistance and a on (light) resistance of?
3- Rate led must be a 3mm red led or could be a 3mm blue superbright led?
4- LDR facing LED must be a 5mm red regular led right? Or a superbright?
5- It seems that we have a volume drop issue when the effect is engaged; analysing the circuit it seems the culprit is the not "high" enough LDR on resistance enabling some current to be drained to ground and thus dropping the volume. I've found a LDR with a on/off resistance of 132k/3MOhm available at my supplier. Will improve the volume drop enough? Another way to do it is to put a trim or resistance in series to teak the value to reduce the vol drop till we reach a decent value. That could also improve the response to overdriven signals.
Sorry to have only questions and no solutions but I hope it helps others also.

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #666 on: May 24, 2011, 07:06:36 PM »
Hi guys, I'm back to this tiny tremolo build (spent a lot of time with other effects I'm building) and I was surprised with the developments since my last post (17! pages ago).
Now we have common ground for signal and power (which is great as I can put it on my multi-fx board), a new IC, a new R2 and lots of new info although not summarised as it's spread trough the massive 34 pages of the thread.
1- The first problem I have is that i can't find a low power TS555CN on my suppliers, just the regular 555CMOS chip. It will work without ticking? How should I wire it, I mean, is there any difference appart from not connect pin 4 to pin 5?
2- LDR should have a 1MOhm off (dark) resistance and a on (light) resistance of?
3- Rate led must be a 3mm red led or could be a 3mm blue superbright led?
4- LDR facing LED must be a 5mm red regular led right? Or a superbright?
5- It seems that we have a volume drop issue when the effect is engaged; analysing the circuit it seems the culprit is the not "high" enough LDR on resistance enabling some current to be drained to ground and thus dropping the volume. I've found a LDR with a on/off resistance of 132k/3MOhm available at my supplier. Will improve the volume drop enough? Another way to do it is to put a trim or resistance in series to teak the value to reduce the vol drop till we reach a decent value. That could also improve the response to overdriven signals.
Sorry to have only questions and no solutions but I hope it helps others also.
Hi joao:
the ts555cn is very quiet...no ticking at all..i would try and find one....but, i did have some success with a cmos 555 dropping the voltage into it helped. 9v>2.2k IIRC!..
the ldr: ywp i used 1M  i cant remember the on resistance though!..
the 3mmled: i used this as a 5mm increased noise!..3mm was fine. so i stuck with it.
the led/ldr. i used a 5mm red bright on mine and was ok.
yep there is a noticable volume drop..your idea with the 3M ldr may be correct...but i noticed when the speed is turned up it goes quieter...i think this may be due to the response time of the ldr on/off too..but i may be wrong on this. but seems logical to me!. in laymans terms anyway...
i would say breadboard it with the 3M and let us know how you get on...all the best rob. :icon_wink:
https://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry
https://deadastronaut.wixsite.com/effects

chasm reverb/tremshifter/faze filter/abductor II delay/timestream reverb/dreamtime delay/skinwalker hi gain dist/black triangle OD/ nano drums/space patrol fuzz//

JRM

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #667 on: May 25, 2011, 07:13:08 AM »
1- The first problem I have is that i can't find a low power TS555CN on my suppliers, just the regular 555CMOS chip. It will work without ticking? How should I wire it, I mean, is there any difference appart from not connect pin 4 to pin 5?
2- LDR should have a 1MOhm off (dark) resistance and a on (light) resistance of?
3- Rate led must be a 3mm red led or could be a 3mm blue superbright led?
4- LDR facing LED must be a 5mm red regular led right? Or a superbright?
5- It seems that we have a volume drop issue when the effect is engaged; analysing the circuit it seems the culprit is the not "high" enough LDR on resistance enabling some current to be drained to ground and thus dropping the volume. I've found a LDR with a on/off resistance of 132k/3MOhm available at my supplier. Will improve the volume drop enough? Another way to do it is to put a trim or resistance in series to teak the value to reduce the vol drop till we reach a decent value. That could also improve the response to overdriven signals.
Sorry to have only questions and no solutions but I hope it helps others also.
Hi joao:
the ts555cn is very quiet...no ticking at all..i would try and find one....but, i did have some success with a cmos 555 dropping the voltage into it helped. 9v>2.2k IIRC!..
the ldr: ywp i used 1M  i cant remember the on resistance though!..
the 3mmled: i used this as a 5mm increased noise!..3mm was fine. so i stuck with it.
the led/ldr. i used a 5mm red bright on mine and was ok.
yep there is a noticable volume drop..your idea with the 3M ldr may be correct...but i noticed when the speed is turned up it goes quieter...i think this may be due to the response time of the ldr on/off too..but i may be wrong on this. but seems logical to me!. in laymans terms anyway...
i would say breadboard it with the 3M and let us know how you get on...all the best rob. :icon_wink:
[/quote]
Thanks Rob.
Regarding the TS555CN I've rememberd of another suplier that might have it. I'll try it.
The ldr I'll try different ones to seee if I can have any improvement in the volume drop.
Regarding the 3mm rate led, did you use a standard 3mm or a superbright? As now the voltage out of pin 3 of the ic is much lower, one can skip the protection resistance. The color may be important also as the reds need less voltage to light up than blue or green ones.

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #668 on: May 25, 2011, 07:17:41 AM »
hi, i used a 3mm yellow normal brightness....

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JRM

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #669 on: May 25, 2011, 09:29:52 AM »
Thanks. So for the leds its a superbright 5mm red for the LDR led and an Yellow standard 3mm for the rate led. I like to summarize :icon_mrgreen:.

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #670 on: May 26, 2011, 08:01:46 AM »
i noticed... ;)
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Brossman

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #671 on: June 13, 2011, 10:13:46 AM »
So I've read the entire thread over the past couple of days, noticing that the Ticking problems were addressed over and over, yet no ONE SINGLE solution seemed to do the trick for anybody...

So here are things consolidated for those tired of searching through 30+ pages of everyones' trials and tribulations (and hair pulling, and beer drinking, etc...)

To relieve ticking issues, some people have:
 - used resistors in series with the LEDs
 - spaced the LED/LDR a little farther apart
 - kept audio/power grounds separate
 - COMBINED audio/power grounds
 - lowered Vcc to the 555

I also followed someone's earlier advice (Rob, and others) and read up on 555 chips as much as possible... Here's a good link (reposted from much earlier in the thread)...

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76910.20

There is a link given here to a site that is VERY helpful... so much so that I read something about ticking...

HEY ROB, you know that nasty ticking issue people keep getting? I read, "3. The reset pin (pin 4) is internally tied HIGH via approx 100k but it should not be left floating as stray pulses may reset the chip."   ....could this be the cause of it? I recall only one kind of chip (ts555, from your latest layout) that didnt leave it open...
Gear: Epi Les Paul (archtop) w/ 490R in the neck, and SD '59N in the bridge; Silvertone 1484 w/ a WGS G15C

Still a tubey noobie. Been doing this a while, and still can't figure much out, smh.

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #672 on: June 13, 2011, 10:48:58 AM »
hi britt....thanks for the summary...i never got round to it!..sorry!... ;)

yep the ts555cn was much much better than the standard cmos 555...no ticking at all....however i did use that same ic and principle in another circuit that required an lfo..and the bugger ticked!..

but not in the tremolo...hmmm....

so your saying if we played around with  the pin 4 it would have improved it?...hmm...i dont think i tried that!..

the basic 555 astable (i think) was just to get the led flashing...the ticking was a major hurdle , as i'm sure your aware of after reading all this... :icon_wink:

i'm too busy at the moment to re-bread it, but yeah i'd give it a shot if it cured it......cheers rob. :icon_cool:

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Brossman

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #673 on: June 13, 2011, 11:23:04 AM »
Hey Rob,

According to the article linked in another thread (xxx.555-timer-circuits.com), pin 4 can pose problems.  I thought that may be the root of the thumps/bangs/ticks everybody was getting.  It seems a simple enough circuit, and I've got a load of some LDRs and 555's coming in the mail - should be here by the end of the week.  I don't currently have a BB, but there's a great little shop in town...  I can try to get a baby BB and get this thing rockin...see what up.  

I've been toying with the notion of doing this by a true bypass kind of thing with a dpdt.  I'm not normally for it (:icon_redface: I kinda like tone-suck...), but I think it may help to address some of the volume drop issues...

AND, on that note, you mentioned twice that adding in a boost/buffer would mean adding another pot... not necessarily, right? Couldn't you dial in the right gain with a trimmer, measure with a meter, then stick in the closest regular resistor? (or hell, just keep the trimmer on the board...?)

 - Britt

EDIT:  AS for the pin 4 issue, the article detailed that when pin 4 drops below 0.8V, it resets the chip.  It seems to me (in my limited electronics knowledge) that if a series cap was used, it may help to keep that pin from dropping below that threshold voltage...thoughts?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 11:27:57 AM by Brossman »
Gear: Epi Les Paul (archtop) w/ 490R in the neck, and SD '59N in the bridge; Silvertone 1484 w/ a WGS G15C

Still a tubey noobie. Been doing this a while, and still can't figure much out, smh.

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #674 on: June 13, 2011, 11:35:32 AM »
the problem with a buffer is that the in/out are tied together/the same thing.....so its kinds weird!!...its only one side of the ldr that could be buffered, but then it would lose the depth by over pushing the ldr...

sorry i'm not too au fait with tech terms...as you may have gathered... ;D

that'd be cool if you get it going on bb.... note: there is a volume drop when speed is fast too...but not slow..

this is down to the 'reaction' time of the ldr...

it would e nice to 'finally' cure any ticking in any 555...i live in hope... :icon_wink:

using an lm358n for an lfo is great though........very quiet lfo...but the speed vol drop would still be an issue, the way i/we were using it....



https://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry
https://deadastronaut.wixsite.com/effects

chasm reverb/tremshifter/faze filter/abductor II delay/timestream reverb/dreamtime delay/skinwalker hi gain dist/black triangle OD/ nano drums/space patrol fuzz//

Brossman

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #675 on: June 13, 2011, 11:39:10 AM »
I'll get some things together and report back to you.  I should remember to document my procedure, so everyone (including myself!) will know what the heck is going on!

As soon as I get the parts and what have you together, I'll give it a go.  Talk to you in about a week!

Until then, stay busy!  ...and have a beer!

 - Britt
Gear: Epi Les Paul (archtop) w/ 490R in the neck, and SD '59N in the bridge; Silvertone 1484 w/ a WGS G15C

Still a tubey noobie. Been doing this a while, and still can't figure much out, smh.

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #676 on: June 13, 2011, 11:43:24 AM »
cheers man...yeah i'll have a beer...or ...3


just ordeed up some ldr's...1M-2k...i needed them for other stuff, always handy though!...speak soon ok... rob.
https://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry
https://deadastronaut.wixsite.com/effects

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pinkjimiphoton

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #677 on: June 13, 2011, 03:36:56 PM »
good luck, britt, rob's circuit is great, but i tried adding a buffer on both sides of the circuit, then both sides simultaneously...the buffer overpowered the effect,
at least in my build.
great sounding circuit...in a way, it's cool, cuz if ya put other stuff before it, it gets overpowered, and as the notes decay, the trem fades in...kind of a ducking tremolo!
;)
"maybe you should stay with yo mama....."

what the @#$% do you mean, it doesn't sound distorted enough, are you high???????????????????

#FuzzyGoodness

Brossman

Tiny Trem is UP on the new BB...
« Reply #678 on: June 21, 2011, 08:16:22 PM »
Weellll, I got all the goods and after a week of trying to breadboard for the first time (5 projects crashed and burned cuz I couldnt get anything going, only to find out that all the busses needed to be jumped in the middle...  -.- I feel so dumb)

ANYHOW, got your 1st Ed. to work where the in and out are on either end of the LDR.  Sounds great!...except there's ticking, go figure...

So I've tried all the remedies: separate gnd; tied gnd; space the LDR further from the LED; tying pins 4/5... The only thing that seemed to help was turning down the treble on the test amp.  Well,  :icon_idea: I thought maybe take a small cap and bleed out the ticking to gnd.  And it works... sort of... And it pretty much stops on the occasion that I touch the leads of a couple components here and there with the same digit (only my hands - not a probe/lead)...

The chip I have is a TS555IN by ST Electronics. The full # is CHN TS555IN K19028

Anybody got any bright ideas? what about the touching thing?
Gear: Epi Les Paul (archtop) w/ 490R in the neck, and SD '59N in the bridge; Silvertone 1484 w/ a WGS G15C

Still a tubey noobie. Been doing this a while, and still can't figure much out, smh.

Perrow

Re: Tiny Trem is UP on the new BB...
« Reply #679 on: June 22, 2011, 02:13:49 AM »
only to find out that all the busses needed to be jumped in the middle...  

Been there  :icon_evil:

Have you tried the limiting resistor? (limiting input to the 555)
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