Mosrite FuzzRite Ventures 1590A 2000 Pound Bee

[LucifersTrip]

Thanks for all the info tubeelectron, lucifersTrip! I'm curious how you added those gating controls! Both of your builds look fantastic!

[tubelectron]

Hi !

Some news about the Mosrite FuzzRite Ventures 1590A 2000 Pound Bee - tubelectron version...

I (finally) made a trial with the so famous 22K resistor we spoke about some posts ago, in order to have a nastier sound : surprisingly, it didn't worked as good as you guys described it, except for the dip in volume in the middle fuzz pot setting... I tweaked a bit, but deceptively nothing was better than without the 22k, so I went back.

I added a 150K in serie between the wiper of the fuzz pot and the top of the volume pot, in order to have the 50/50 setting giving roughly the same level as the dry signal.

A+!

[LucifersTrip]

Hi !

Some news about the Mosrite FuzzRite Ventures 1590A 2000 Pound Bee - tubelectron version...

I (finally) made a trial with the so famous 22K resistor we spoke about some posts ago, in order to have a nastier sound : surprisingly, it didn't worked as good as you guys described it, except for the dip in volume in the middle fuzz pot setting... I tweaked a bit, but deceptively nothing was better than without the 22k, so I went back.

a quick guess would be because you used transistors with much too high gains...nearly 600 hfe while most use 100 - 200.
i've built the silicon version, ge version and numerous variants and I never used any hfe's higher than the mid 200's

[tubelectron]

a quick guess would be because you used transistors with much too high gains...nearly 600 hfe while most use 100 - 200.
i've built the silicon version, ge version and numerous variants and I never used any hfe's higher than the mid 200's

That's right, LucifersTrip : I used BC109C with Hfe circa 560 for Ib=10µA, while the original TZ82 Si Qs are specified Hfe 40 to 500 for Ib=10mA. I tried lower Hfe Qs like 2N1613, 2N1893 (Hfe 30-40), 2N2219 (Hfe 76), BC237A, 2N3904, BC107 (Hfe 130-150) and even MPSA18 (Hfe 850-900) and draw the conclusion that lower Hfe = Less sustain and less fizz, even if each model of transistor sounded sometimes very differently in terms of breakup and harmonics.

The best compromise was the BC109C : raunchy but no fizzy and with sustain. BUT AT THAT TIME I didn't had the idea to try the 22K resistor, unfortunately ! So I should test it on breadboard to see if it works better with lower Hfe... After all, in my Sbrodj Fuzz (FY-2 variant), I use 2N3137 which are Hfe 50 while the original 2SC536 are specified Hfe 120, and the sound is as nasty as possible, whereas hi Hfe Qs didn't worked as well.

A+!

[LucifersTrip]

a quick guess would be because you used transistors with much too high gains...nearly 600 hfe while most use 100 - 200.
i've built the silicon version, ge version and numerous variants and I never used any hfe's higher than the mid 200's

That's right, LucifersTrip : I used BC109C with Hfe circa 560 for Ib=10µA, while the original TZ82 Si Qs are specified Hfe 40 to 500 for Ib=10mA. I tried lower Hfe Qs like 2N1613, 2N1893 (Hfe 30-40), 2N2219 (Hfe 76), BC237A, 2N3904, BC107 (Hfe 130-150) and even MPSA18 (Hfe 850-900) and draw the conclusion that lower Hfe = Less sustain and less fizz, even if each model of transistor sounded sometimes very differently in terms of breakup and harmonics.

The best compromise was the BC109C : raunchy but no fizzy and with sustain. BUT AT THAT TIME I didn't had the idea to try the 22K resistor, unfortunately ! So I should test it on breadboard to see if it works better with lower Hfe... After all, in my Sbrodj Fuzz (FY-2 variant), I use 2N3137 which are Hfe 50 while the original 2SC536 are specified Hfe 120, and the sound is as nasty as possible, whereas hi Hfe Qs didn't worked as well.

A+!

you should also consider mixing the hfe's. at least one of the Fuzz Rite variants (Orpheum) sounds killer with a 100-150 Q1 and a much lower (30-50) Q2.  Though, I have found with most of the Fuzz Rite variants I've tried, when hfe's are close to equal, using lower gains gives a more dirty sound with lesser sustain, middle gains gives the best fuzz with more sustain and higher gains give more metallic sound with a harsher treble but less fuzz and just a little more sustain. 

Since there are endless possibilities with mixing hfe's and mixing silicons & ge's, you will definitely find many exceptions (like your Sbrodj with hfe 50...surprising)

one of my next projects was to try a germanium FY-2

[8mileshigh]

Nice built !  I built 3 different FuzzRites about 7 years ago and should go dig them out of a box in the basement.  My favorite build ended up being the germanium circuit from a schematic I found on a Japanese website.  If I remember correctly, this is the one that gave me the the most buzz for my dollar.

[LucifersTrip]

Nice built !  I built 3 different FuzzRites about 7 years ago and should go dig them out of a box in the basement.  My favorite build ended up being the germanium circuit from a schematic I found on a Japanese website.  If I remember correctly, this is the one that gave me the the most buzz for my dollar.

exactly....all the ge's I've built had more fuzz...if you ever find that schematic from the Japanese site, please post it

[tubelectron]

Thanks LucifersTrip,

Do you have the schematic of the Ge version of the FY-2 ? If not, here it is. I had in hands a Ge FY-2 many many years ago and I remember that the schematic was printed on a label inside, exactly like this one :



A+!

[LucifersTrip]

Thanks LucifersTrip,

Do you have the schematic of the Ge version of the FY-2 ? If not, here it is. I had in hands a Ge FY-2 many many years ago and I remember that the schematic was printed on a label inside, exactly like this one :

(made larger so everyone can build it easier)


A+!

Thanx....Great!  I didn't think a ge version existed and I didn't expect the scoop to be omitted...that's what makes the FY-2 a bit different. I was actually planning to drop ge's in the silicon version and adjust it till I got it to sound cool.

Now I will consider building the ge version and adding a scoop.

This guy did did what I was going to do...drop ge's in the si version:
http://gumballelectronics.blogspot.com/2009/08/this-is-old-60s-shin-ei-fuzz-pedal.html

...and on this subject, have you seen this chart...funny:
http://aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6874&g2_serialNumber=2

[tubelectron]

I was actually planning to drop ge's in the silicon version and adjust it till I got it to sound cool.

Why not ? I would be interested (since I am more qualified to adjust tubes than Qs...) to see the result, as the old schem I provided doesn't have the scoop filter and so must behave differently (but may be very good too).

In my Ge fuzz trials (FFAC128NOS, TBmkIIpro, TB3knobs), I always found a kind of smoother sound than with Si : the DZZZZZZZZZZZ is replaced by GRRRRRRRRRR, if you see what I mean.

A+!

[glops]

Thanks LucifersTrip,

Do you have the schematic of the Ge version of the FY-2 ? If not, here it is. I had in hands a Ge FY-2 many many years ago and I remember that the schematic was printed on a label inside, exactly like this one :



A+!

Woah, that schematic deserves it's own thread.  I haven't seen that schem and I love the FY2.  Is there anyway you could scan the schematic?  There's some spots that I can't make out.  That's exciting!

[jrod]

Right on! Thanks for posting that FY-2 schematic, tubelectron!!!

[glops]

Is that a PNP Germanium version of the FY2?

[LucifersTrip]

tubelectron...or anyone, please check to make sure I didn't make any errors. I quickly "edited" the FY-2 silicon schematic into the germanium version...

[jrod]

Hey LucifersTrip, Q2's emitter resistor looks like it could be 1K5. I can't tell if that is a shadow or a period.

Otherwise it looks good. Thanks for drawing that up and posting it.

[LucifersTrip]

Hey LucifersTrip, Q2's emitter resistor looks like it could be 1K5. I can't tell if that is a shadow or a period.

Otherwise it looks good. Thanks for drawing that up and posting it.

hahah...yeah, I saw that too...I think it's just a shadow or mark on that old paper...maybe tubelectron can see it better.

I'll try this one soon

[tubelectron]

Hi LuciferTrips and jrod,

At that time, I also traced the Ge FY-2 from the original I had in hands :



(You even have the parameters of the 2SB56 I found on my databooks)

So as you can see, your tracing is correct, and you guessed right : Q2 emitter resistor is 1K5, not 15K.

I never took the time to test that schematic... I should have !!!

I think it would sound more like an overdrive than a fuzz, which could be also very interesting.

A+!

[LucifersTrip]

Hi LuciferTrips and jrod,

At that time, I also traced the Ge FY-2 from the original I had in hands :

(You even have the parameters of the 2SB56 I found on my databooks)

So as you can see, your tracing is correct, and you guessed right : Q2 emitter resistor is 1K5, not 15K.

I never took the time to test that schematic... I should have !!!

I think it would sound more like an overdrive than a fuzz, which could be also very interesting.

A+!

That's great!  I made the 1.5k correction to the schematic...Yes, on the datasheet online it shows 2SB56 hfe 80. Did you actually measure the hfe's of the original you had in hand?

thanx again...I'll try this one next

[jrod]

Thanks, Tubelectron!!!

I am going to get this breadboarded very soon!

[glops]

That is so awesome guys! One of my favorite fuzzes!