Author Topic: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!  (Read 136383 times)

thedefog

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2011, 04:30:53 PM »
I was really expecting those photos to be a lot more frightening. It really don't look TOO bad... Still would be a good time investment though. Nice 1/2 and 1 watt resistors.

pinkjimiphoton

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2011, 06:03:20 PM »
i think the biggest part will be sourcing original parts. i'm sure they'll be available, as it was pretty common stuff back in the day.
what i'm wondering is if this can be improved on, or if any parts can be changed to chips  to cut down on parts count, etc.
or...if doing so would change the whole vibe of it. these things sound great, i really hope between a bunch of us we can hammer it out to be a workable
workalike/soundalike.
i'm a newbe, i'm just learning to veroboard stuff, so probably won't be as much help as i wish i could be.
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

Keppy

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2011, 02:52:29 AM »
Here's a first attempt. Let me know if I screwed anything up!

"Electrons go where I tell them to go." - wavley

pinkjimiphoton

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2011, 10:46:19 AM »
keppy!!! you are godlyke!!!!

it looks good to me preliminarily, but i'm still kind of a newbe, so i'm gonna lurk and watch a while.

looks like i'll be learning to etch pretty soon...doing this on vero would probably be a night mare.

thanks, dude...somehow, together, i gotta feeling that this unit is gonna rise like a phoenix...nice work!!  :icon_mrgreen:
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

R.G.

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2011, 11:11:26 AM »
Good work Keppy. That's exactly what I was suggesting.

From here, the next things to consider are
(1) scaling; get someone to measure the actual size of those resistors in the pictures of the boards, and figure out whether the resistors are 1/4 W or 1/2W (that is, 0.4" lead spacing or 0.5" lead spacing) and what the spacing is on the trimmer pins so you can adjust the pads for trimmer pots you can actually buy. Shoot, as long as you're asking for sizes, have 'em measure the length and width of the PCB.
(2) mounting: I think I see circles for four mounting holes in there. Make sure there's an empty round space around those mounting holes big enough to get a nut in to screw the board down.
(3) Trace run cleanup; there's always a tidier run of the traces. This is purely an artistic nit.
(4) Checking, checking, checking. Print out the schematic, and the PCB showing traces and parts. Then *one person* takes the schematic and a colored marker, *another person* takes the PCB and a colored marker, and the person with the schematic tells the other person, trace by trace, what connects to what. The person with the PCB checks, then marks off the correct traces with colored marker. Then the person with the schematic marks the schematic. It's an old, slow way to do it, but it's necessary for humans to separate looking at one, then the other. One person can do both if they're very, very careful; the markers are invaluable in doing it wiht one person.

Confession time: I did the fall board last night as well. But I think this effort deserves to be what gets out to the DIY community, so you guys go and run with it!
R.G.

Quick IQ Test: If anyone in a governmental position suspected that YOU had top-secret information on YOUR computer, how many minutes would you remain outside a jail cell?

pinkjimiphoton

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2011, 11:15:30 AM »
r.g., dumb newbe question, but should everything be combined into just one board? would that make it easier, or more of a nitemare?
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

R.G.

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2011, 11:34:29 AM »
r.g., dumb newbe question, but should everything be combined into just one board? would that make it easier, or more of a nitemare?

Interesting question. And it's far from a dumb newbie question, it's the beginning of a very thoughtful one.

As I keep telling everyone who will listen, the first step in PCB layout is to get clear the mechanical constraints of where the board mounts in the box (and what box you're using) and where the controls, etc. have to go to fit the mechanical constraints. If you can simply buy a huge box later, that's great and you can make the board as big and odd-shaped as needed. However, it gets really crucial if you HAVE TO fit in a certain box; a pre-chosen box has to be taken into account or the layout may not be possible at all. In electronics, it's a truism that size does matter.  :icon_biggrin:

Given that, the obvious question is this: what box will this go in? The Ludwig had a large, complicated enclosure that I don't think anyone would duplicate. It's one of the best illustrations of what I wrote in "Effects Economics 101" - the electronics is almost free compared to the cost of the box and controls.

In terms of just getting a layout done, making a single board squashing it all together is much, much more difficult for a beginner than overlaying traces on the existing drawings. It involves all the nasty questions of changing the relative positions of all the parts, and is essentially a start-from-scratch layout from the schematic. It's a very much more complicated layout job. But it is the only thing that offers an escape from just buying a big enough box and working with it.

I think that the right thing to do in this case is for you and Keppy and others to overlay the boards as they exist, and then find a box to put them in instead of trying to combine the two boards. You have a few other challenges waiting as well: can you get commercial parts to do the controls and switches and how will you arrange and mount them? These are a GREAT introduction to the larger issue of how one thinks about designing the entirety of an effect (or any other electronic widget) and I think this is a good way to go about it. The Ludwig is nice in that you don't even have the possibility of putting it into a Hammond 1590BB, so that leaves you free to find other setups.

I also notice that none of this talks about the power supply for the Ludwig. I wonder that that looks like...  :icon_biggrin:
R.G.

Quick IQ Test: If anyone in a governmental position suspected that YOU had top-secret information on YOUR computer, how many minutes would you remain outside a jail cell?

Keppy

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2011, 11:36:27 AM »
Thanks guys! I double-checked the connections last night, so I think it's going to take a different set of eyes to find any mistakes. I won't have a chance to try R.G.'s two-man method this week, so if someone else could check it over I'd really appreciate it. I think the scaling is good, though. I sized the photo before I started to get .3" resistor lead spacing, which I believe gave me .2" x .1" on the trimpots. The scaling should not be an issue. All those axial-lead electrolytics and giant film caps look like a pain, though.
"Electrons go where I tell them to go." - wavley

R.G.

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2011, 11:45:51 AM »
Thanks guys! I double-checked the connections last night, so I think it's going to take a different set of eyes to find any mistakes. I won't have a chance to try R.G.'s two-man method this week, so if someone else could check it over I'd really appreciate it. I think the scaling is good, though. I sized the photo before I started to get .3" resistor lead spacing, which I believe gave me .2" x .1" on the trimpots.
Good thinking - you're already on scaling. I did much the same kind of thinking. I came to a little different conclusion, though. 1/4W resistors on 0.3" spacing has the leads bent very, very tightly at the end of the body. That is a reliability problem, as you will stress and crack a certain percentage of them bending that close to the body.

These look to me like they're on 0.4" spacing, normal for 1/4W resistors because the leads are not bent right at the body. They don't look like 1/8W to me. I think R74 is a 1/2W, up in the upper left hand corner. That question in my mind is what led to me wondering if one of the picture takers could give even one measurement.

Quote
The scaling should not be an issue. All those axial-lead electrolytics and giant film caps look like a pain, though.
In mine, I ditche the axial lead electros in favor of modern radials.  A radial can have its leads bent wide for wide holes. The giant film caps are probably much smaller today. I suspect that you can replace all of them with 0.2" lead spacing box style caps. That's what I did in mine.

But you bring up an important point: it is frustrating to do a layout then find out that you can't get a part you thought you could. Next step is to make a bill of materials and **go find every single, stinking part on line** and find out its lead spacing and dimensions. If you can't get parts that fit, it's better to know that before you etch.
R.G.

Quick IQ Test: If anyone in a governmental position suspected that YOU had top-secret information on YOUR computer, how many minutes would you remain outside a jail cell?

R.G.

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2011, 11:50:09 AM »
And you guys do know that within a week of you getting one running, there will be three new effects companies with their Lugwig Phase II clones on the internet, right?  Complete with hand wired, point to point controls, NOS carbon comp resistors and hand matched NOS (and probably germanium!) transistors, and a pre-charged waiting list, on a new web site that has  - well, unusual  :icon_biggrin: - theories about sound and how it is made.
 :icon_lol:
R.G.

Quick IQ Test: If anyone in a governmental position suspected that YOU had top-secret information on YOUR computer, how many minutes would you remain outside a jail cell?

pinkjimiphoton

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2011, 11:54:46 AM »
i wonder if something like this would work for an enclosure?

http://www.budind.com/view.php?part=pl-l



was thinking something like this, with a crybaby shell as the expression pedal, may give enough room  to mount the footswitches, boards, and control switches?
i saw a metal thing like this a while back surfing...will try to find again. plastic worries me, and this i think will be a little too small..
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

pinkjimiphoton

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2011, 11:56:11 AM »
And you guys do know that within a week of you getting one running, there will be three new effects companies with their Lugwig Phase II clones on the internet, right?  Complete with hand wired, point to point controls, NOS carbon comp resistors and hand matched NOS (and probably germanium!) transistors, and a pre-charged waiting list, on a new web site that has  - well, unusual  :icon_biggrin: - theories about sound and how it is made.
 :icon_lol:

r.g., you just made me spray coffee all over my 'puter screen....lol!!!!!  :icon_mrgreen:
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

pinkjimiphoton

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2011, 12:03:23 PM »
dig this page...bet one of these would work for an enclosure, and they're not prohibitively expensive...the 10 degree slope metal box is what i was looking at, it's available up to 14" wide:

http://www.a1parts.com/boxes/1456_sloped_aluminum_consoles.htm#10%20Degree%20Slope
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

thedefog

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2011, 12:26:21 PM »
It probably wouldn't be too difficult to just cut some sheet metal to size, bend for the front and back, and cut out some wooden side pannels and bottom out like a moogerfooger. I've done that for a pedal build and it came out pretty nice actually.

thedefog

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2011, 12:27:24 PM »
dig this page...bet one of these would work for an enclosure, and they're not prohibitively expensive...the 10 degree slope metal box is what i was looking at, it's available up to 14" wide:

http://www.a1parts.com/boxes/1456_sloped_aluminum_consoles.htm#10%20Degree%20Slope

Exactly! Those are gorgeous.

pinkjimiphoton

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2011, 12:47:18 PM »
i was figuring if stuff would all fit in the box, could bolt a crybaby shell to the top for the exp treadle, mount the 4 footswitches along the sides, and have plenty of room left over for control switches, outputs, power supply, etc... and it would LOOK cool! :icon_biggrin:
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

pinkjimiphoton

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2011, 12:51:01 PM »
hey, was wondering if anyone knows how to get a hold of "sir hc"...i believe he was the guy that posted the original gut shots, etc...perhaps he could help us with some info on the power supply board?

i still get mail from alt.guitaramps whatever, but for some reason can't post.

i bet he'd get in on the fun!

just an idea...
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

Keppy

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2011, 12:55:35 PM »
I was thinking of using one of those Hammond 1456s on another build. They're vented, though, and  I don't know how much that would affect the hum shielding ability of the box.
"Electrons go where I tell them to go." - wavley

thedefog

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2011, 01:17:57 PM »
I was thinking of using one of those Hammond 1456s on another build. They're vented, though, and  I don't know how much that would affect the hum shielding ability of the box.

More importantly is the jacks. They'd have to be mounted on top of the box, unless you didn't mind having akward jack mountings on the back. Kind of a shame they're made that way.

Keppy

Re: someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!
« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2011, 01:46:36 PM »
These look to me like they're on 0.4" spacing, normal for 1/4W resistors because the leads are not bent right at the body. They don't look like 1/8W to me. I think R74 is a 1/2W, up in the upper left hand corner. That question in my mind is what led to me wondering if one of the picture takers could give even one measurement.

I see your point. Scaling it up 33% actually sounds pretty nice. Those would be some luxuriously large solder pads!
"Electrons go where I tell them to go." - wavley