Author Topic: Colorsound Vocalizer vero  (Read 85716 times)

digi2t

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Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« on: June 15, 2011, 01:05:28 AM »
Hi all,

I've given the Colorsound Vocalizer, vero version, a shot here. If someone would like to look over this initial offering. I know I have a row too much on top. Disregard;



Here is the diagram;



And, the BOM;

C1 10 uF 1 
C10 220 nF 1 
C11 680 nF 1 
C12 680 nF 1 
C13 100 nF 1 
C14 100 nF 1 
C15 2.2 uF 1 
C2 100 uF 1 
C3 2.2 uF 1 
C4 2.2 uF 1 
C5 100 nF 1 
C6 100 nF 1 
C7 4.7 nF 1 
C8 4.7 nF 1 
C9 220 nF 1 
D1 1N750A 1 
D2 1N4148 1 
D3 1N4148 1 
D4 1N4148 1 
D5 1N4148 1 
D6 1N4148 1 
IC1 CA3080E 1 
IC2 RC4136N 1 
Q1 PNP GERM. 1 
R1 3.9 K 1 
R10 100 K 1 
R11 330 K 1 
R12 123 K 1 
R13 120 K 1 
R14 2.7 M 1 
R15 2.7 M 1 
R16 47 K 1 
R17 1.2 K 1 
R18 120 K 1 
R19 4.7 K 1 
R2 1 K 1 
R20 2.2 K 1 
R21 2.7 K 1 
R22 330 ? 1 
R3 3 K 1 
R4 1 K 1 
R5 2.2 K 1 
R6 2.2 K 1 
R7 27 K 1 
R8 47 K 1 
R9 1 M 1 

Thanks all,
Dino

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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2011, 02:53:44 PM »
great work bro!!

i'll look it over when i get home...did you actually build this already, or is this a proposed vero layout?
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digi2t

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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2011, 05:58:33 PM »
Haven't built it yet, this is the first vero layout, but I already noticed some errors. Mislabeled resistor, and the yellow wire is missing. I'll make the corrections tonight, and update it.
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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2011, 08:48:58 PM »
cool....i'll wait, then when it's ready i'm a gonna go buy all the parts so i can verify it for ya! ;)
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digi2t

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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2011, 10:07:00 PM »
Here you go. I've double, and triple checked it to the diagram. Disregard the BOM above, this layout includes the proper BOM. You'll have to follow the diagram vis-a-vis the layout to identify the resistors and caps. For some reason, the labels didn't show this time. No biggie, considering how compact this layout is. I have a second hand Cry Baby on the way for this project. I always corner mount my boards with stand-offs, so the 2 bold black corner holes are for the screws. I always clean off a 3 x 3 area of copper on the corners as well, the hole being in the middle. This avoids any shorting issues if you're using metal standoffs.

Another note, pay attention to some of the resistors, it's a bit dicey to tell a "2" from a "7" on the drawing. My advice is to zoom the drawing where necessary. Or, PM me if you're not sure. I'll try and sort out the DIY Creator snafu in the meantime.



Again, not verified, but it follows the diagram. Let me know if you get done before me.
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R.G.

Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2011, 11:01:05 PM »
Hmmm...
Technology of the Colorsound Vocalizer
Input signal to sections A and B of opamp. Input impedance 120K paralleled with 100K. Input noninverting to fuzz opamp 1-2-3, inverting to clean opamp 4-5-6, with gain of 3.3 to noninverting/clean. Gain of 1+1M/27K on fuzz, clipped by diodes. Clean and fuzz blended/selected by cross-signal blend pot. Blended signal to both formant filters in parallel; Section 8-9-10 being F2, section 12-13-14 being F1. Filter frequency set by dual 22K pot. Filters are resistor-to-ground multiple feedback bandpass types. See The Technology of Wah Pedals, http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/wahpedl/wahped.htm and "Human Voices and the Wah Pedal" http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/wahpedl/voicewah.htm. F2 rises monotonically with pot position. F1 uses the same trick as the EH "talking wah" of tying both ends of a pot together to get a resistance that rises, then falls. The resistance range was not enough, so this resistance is used to control the 3080 OTA set up as a current controlled resistor. PNP transistor converts pot position to variable current into the OTA's bias pin. Two filter outputs added in parallel in a resistive adder for the output.

Simple. Cheap.

Hitting particular formants will be random-ish with part variation, but should be interesting. Can be tuned for better. Q changes with frequency, probably not too badly.
Much like the EH talking way or a couple of the wah-antiwah setups noted other places.  Likely to lose some bass response with low notes because F1 is a bandpass, not a lowpass filter.
R.G.

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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2011, 12:15:40 AM »
hmmmm, does it follow the standard convention of r1 and on going from left to right? i'se a mite bit confused, here, dino!! ;)
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digi2t

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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2011, 09:32:25 AM »
Jimi, my sincerest apologies. Really. I forgot about your vision dilemma. Give me some time, I'll fill in the labels manually. In the long run, it will be easier for everyone. I was going to just follow the diagram, and match the layout, at the same time. I'll just fill it in, and it will be done. Still haven't figured out why the resistor labels only appear when the resistor is shown stretched out. All my other layouts, the label would appear beside the resistor when standing up.

Sorry bro. I'm on it.
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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2011, 10:20:08 AM »
oh dude, no worries....i really appreciate you going the extra yard for me. this looks like it's gonna be an extremely cool build!!

your version of diy layout creator seems a lot different from mine...is yours one of the later versions?

thanks!!! ;)
listen loud. blaze one first:
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I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

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digi2t

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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2011, 11:55:06 AM »
I'm using the v.3 beta. It seems to be a lot smoother than the v.2. I don't know what happened to the resistor labels though, I've done 3 or 4 veros with that one, but this is the first time that didn't show up. Updated version should be here by the weekend.

Cheers,
Dino
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pinkjimiphoton

Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2011, 11:57:52 AM »
weird!! lol...

thanks tho bro!! looks like it will be a fun build!  :icon_mrgreen:
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

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digi2t

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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2011, 12:23:06 PM »
Yup, hopefully our postal strike will be over soon  :icon_frown: . All my parts are hung up right now.
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pinkjimiphoton

Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2011, 01:27:33 PM »
is the bom above right? just curious, so i can try and source the parts out locally...thanks dino!!
listen loud. blaze one first:
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I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

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digi2t

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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2011, 05:42:54 PM »
Use the BOM that is on the bottom of the layout. That one is correct. Once I update the resistor labels, it will be complete.

 :icon_twisted:.... my son wanted me to put this here   :icon_razz:

and now he's denying it!!!! :icon_surprised:

P.S., I had a good suggestion concerning the 2.7M resistors from another fellow (Erik. He says that changing the resistance here could change the vowel sounds. Maybe a good spot for some pots here instead. Have to look into that.
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R.G.

Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2011, 09:45:19 PM »
P.S., I had a good suggestion concerning the 2.7M resistors from another fellow (Erik. He says that changing the resistance here could change the vowel sounds. Maybe a good spot for some pots here instead. Have to look into that.
Vowel sounds happen when the two filter frequencies hit inside the regions noted for F1 and F2 in the chart here: http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/sing-wah/sing-wah.htm. When the resonances hit those particular regions, your brain goes "VOWEL!".  If they're outside the regions, your brain hears a unique sound, but does not trigger recognition as a vowel.

The stuff I'm doing with the IC formant filters is primarily to shape the filter frequencies so that they hit ONLY vowel sounds, not outside.
R.G.

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digi2t

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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2011, 10:54:46 PM »
OK Jimi, I updated the layout above, the resistor names now appear. Had to do it manually, thank God this isn't the Phase II  :P ;D

Let me know if you get it off the ground before me.

Quote
Vowel sounds happen when the two filter frequencies hit inside the regions noted for F1 and F2 in the chart here: http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/sing-wah/sing-wah.htm. When the resonances hit those particular regions, your brain goes "VOWEL!".  If they're outside the regions, your brain hears a unique sound, but does not trigger recognition as a vowel.

The stuff I'm doing with the IC formant filters is primarily to shape the filter frequencies so that they hit ONLY vowel sounds, not outside.

R.G.... you just blow my mind man. It explains the F1, F2 deal in the Phase II (that one had me wondering) very clearly. Again, we need more guys like you in schools. Every time I read any of your stuff, I go to bed less stupid at night. Thanks dude!  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 11:01:34 PM by digi2t »
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digi2t

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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2011, 09:24:51 PM »
Bought the dual gang pot here;

http://www.audiomaintenance.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiomaintenance.com%2Facatalog%2Faml_catalog.html&WD=plastic&PN=potentiometers_carbon_20mm_diameter_dual_gang.html%23a26

more info; http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/om-01-046_extended_info.html

It's got the right type of shaft for the Dunlop wah gears. They're a bit pricey, but it's the closest match I could find not to have to do modifications for the spur and pinion. Went all out, and bought 3 for good measure. I should be good for a while  :icon_rolleyes:
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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2011, 10:17:36 PM »
any idea where the hell i can find an empty crybaby? don't really wanna shell out 50 bucks to smallbear...i'm kicking myself cuz i threw away two of 'em when i moved last year, never thought i'd have any use for 'em!!

;)

dino...thanks for updating the layout..
i'll be getting the parts together soon hopefully, gotta gig next weekend that should pay for it all...too broke atm!!
;)
listen loud. blaze one first:
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I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

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digi2t

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Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2011, 08:57:33 AM »
Yeah, I hear ya man! I looked at Small Bear as well, but I ended up finding a Dunlop Q wah for 60 bux on eBay. I figured that way, the pot hole for the fuzz is already there, and I can harvest whats inside the Dunlop. It sucks, but it is what it is. At this rate, it looks like the Vocalizer, and the Phase II are shaping up to become my most expensive builds ever!

No... check that. I momentarily forgot about the 1200 the original PII cost me. :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:

I guess the need for certain things is directly proportional to the amount of overtime one is prepared to do. :icon_wink:

Peace bro.
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"gigantically smaller."  - pinkjimiphoton

"The more "slam" you can get, the better." - anotherjim

pinkjimiphoton

Re: Colorsound Vocalizer vero
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2011, 09:21:42 AM »
ha!

well, i'm searching for another baby out there...i can get chinese clones pretty cheap, but at this point, i'm thinking pretty much any kind of volume or wah pedal will work.

i think the pII was worth it!

lol

i hear ya tho, it's gonna be expensive to build both, but i think worth it in the long run!! ;)

rock on, my brother.
 :icon_mrgreen:
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness