Author Topic: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell  (Read 90292 times)

R.G.

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2011, 11:02:23 PM »
I think we may both not be getting it.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 01:31:26 PM by R.G. »
R.G.

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RedHouse

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2011, 12:47:39 PM »
There are a couple things I wanted to contribute/share/offer in the critique of your new project, I don't have time to type it all up at once but for today I'd like to contribute this particular suggestion for the documentation.

I was pleased to see you've adopted my copper pipe-cap light shield idea (works good, very cheap, and totally available) I did notice immediately there was no mention of the clearance issues in the descriptive verbiage.

When I came up with the coppper pipe-cap/light-shield solution during the early Forum-Vibe project days it worked very well even w/o modification (although a little tall).

But when I applied it to my Vibe-Baby I immediately noticed clearance problems with the wah shell, there was no mention of it in your PDF but maybe the guys who built and tested your project didn't try to install the back cover on their wah shells but anyway that's why I'm contributing this info for your benefit now.

The problem is that the off-the-shelf copper pipe caps (Home Depot, Lowes, Ace/True Value, etc) are all made at over 3/4" tall (actually .788 or 20mm is the average) and so when you try to use the copper pipe cap inside the wah shell, which is a sloping enclosure, you can't get it in there (as is) with proper back cover plate clearance.

Now the tricky part is, if you don't trim it correctly (ie; too little trimming) you will be putting presure on the PCB when the back cover plate of the wah shell touches anything like carpet (or just getting bumped in transport, oops there goes the bulb). On the other hand if you trim it too much off your pipe cap it will come in contact with the bulb inside (T1-3/4 bulb requires at least .5"/13mm clearance) causing it to be pushed/lean to one side so one or more LDR's will be in closer proximity to the bulb while the others will be farther away, this will definately cause a different vibe sound even with tinning solution or tinfoil applied to the roof of the pipe cap.
(even if you use those T-3/4 type grain-of-wheat bulbs like the Mini DejaVibe)

Here's what I'm talking about:  
 


The builder/assembler of a vibe in wah shell project needs to trim something like 1/8" off the pipe cap to get the required clearance for the bottom plate to install properly and not come in contact with the bulb or the board can be re-design to relocate the light chamber farther toward the front of the wah shell, up between the DC and I/O jacks where there is 25mm of clearance.

This is difficult, but do'able for the home DIY guy. I gave up on using pipe-cutters and all that and now just chuck them into a lathe and do the trim, it costs me a little of time/trade with my machinist buddy, but it's worth it.

Please feel free to add this pipe cap clearance/modification information to your UVICS project pdf, you don't need to mention me in your doc's.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 01:35:07 PM by R.G. »

R.G.

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2011, 03:11:35 PM »
Hey, thanks, Brad. I'll fold that into the instructions.

I was inspired that I took a wrong turn on making UVICS too small. So I got out the old Crybaby rocker and measured how big I could make it. A couple of hours turned out a layout with the right size and screwholes that is an easy toner transfer, resistors laying down, and very easy to replicate. All single sided, through hole parts on spacings that can be done with machine insertion, a real 70's kinda board. I hope everyone has as much fun with it as I did. 

I don't think I'd ever have thought of that without your help and inspiration. Thank you.
R.G.

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RedHouse

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2011, 03:57:19 PM »
Hey, thanks, Brad. I'll fold that into the instructions.

I was inspired that I took a wrong turn on making UVICS too small. So I got out the old Crybaby rocker and measured how big I could make it. A couple of hours turned out a layout with the right size and screwholes that is an easy toner transfer, resistors laying down, and very easy to replicate. All single sided, through hole parts on spacings that can be done with machine insertion, a real 70's kinda board. I hope everyone has as much fun with it as I did. 

I don't think I'd ever have thought of that without your help and inspiration. Thank you.


Glad to be there for ya, hope to see the new, new UVICS project soon.   :icon_smile:

R.G.

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2011, 07:07:30 PM »
Glad to be there for ya, hope to see the new, new UVICS project soon.   :icon_smile:
It's a pleasure. The toner transfer and parts placement are up at Geofex now. Pesky layout software won't print holes in pads for toner and they have to be put in by hand.

Enjoy.
R.G.

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Brymus

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Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2011, 07:52:32 PM »
Sweet!
I just got an empty wah shell.
Do the toner tranfer component's designations match the photo resist board layout/schematic ?
I'm no EE or even a tech,just a monkey with a soldering iron that can read,and follow instructions. ;D
My now defunct band http://www.facebook.com/TheZedLeppelinExperience

R.G.

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2011, 08:16:29 PM »
Do the toner tranfer component's designations match the photo resist board layout/schematic ?
I'll check. When I get in a creative mood, I have to get it down on paper fast. The schematic matches, but the part number may or may not - if I hit the "re-annotate" key, the program would have re-numbered from upper left to lower right. I'll go check for the correct matching of part numbers to positions. But only the part number for a position changes. The interconnection between parts does not. I'll have the first order check done by the time you get etched. Well, OK, unless you're really, really fast.

Be aware, I have not had time to build one of these. If you're willing to try it out, you get free technical support. And I do have to go slog through the paperwork to get the leads hooked up, wiring diagrams, all that stuff. Of course, this is about the thousandth time I've laid out the univibe circuit too. I found a post in an archive of the old ampage forum, predating this one:
 
Quote
3/4/1998 4:12 PM
R.G.    Just as a bit of history - There have been a couple of people who got the thing inside a Hammond 1590C, same size as the "Experience" pedal. That is a tight fit, not recommended, but it can be done. The board fills up the bottom of the box, the top is where the controls get mounted and the jacks sit in the middle. This is a lot like 3-D checkers to get it in there.
  ...
I put one inside a Crybaby shell successfully by using a Dremel roto tool with the rotary file burr on it to remove the cast aluminum post in the middle of the board area and then mounting the vibe board on the metal bottom sheet. You'll have to work some to get a pot that will fit on the existing crybaby pot mounting, as this needs a deep sleeve on the pot. You might be able to thin the pot mounting lugs a bit with a flat file or a rotary file on the dremel and get a more standard pot in there. 
 
The Crybaby approach is a fair amount of metalwork, but it makes for a nice setup. By the way, the Crybaby mechanics makes a 100K dual audio taper pot work OK for the speed control, as the mechanics rotates it to fast for the toe-down position. This cleans up one of the problems with the speed control and needing a reverse-log pot. 

It was a history item even back in 1998. I'll see how far back the layouts go, out of curiousity. The latest layout in the original form factor is the version J-0. The UVICS was a start-from-zero effort using only the schematic, the board boundaries and the screwhole locations. Took about an hour for the raw layout, another hour of dinking around to get the printing into pdf format. I'll adapt the wiring, get the BOM printed out from the native PCB format, and include several pages of warnings and advice about how not to mess it up.  :icon_lol:
R.G.

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R.G.

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2011, 09:19:01 PM »
OK, checked the part numbers. It reannotated the part numbers. I went back through and changed them to part numbers corresponding as closely as possible to the Neovibe schematic.

"As closely as possible" means that there are some extra parts in there for modification use, so there's extra numbers used. I'll note those on the BOM. I also used up some of the blank area with more filter cap spaces so there are options there. I'll repost the new version with more cap spaces in a bit. I gotta go stick holes in by hand again. Ptah, ptah, PITA.   :icon_rolleyes:
R.G.

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RedHouse

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2011, 10:10:02 PM »
I'll repost the new version with more cap spaces in a bit.

We'll wait 'till the dust settles.   :icon_smile:

R.G.

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2011, 11:48:44 PM »
We'll wait 'till the dust settles.   :icon_smile:
Whatever are you waiting for, Brad?  :icon_biggrin:
R.G.

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RedHouse

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2011, 08:41:38 AM »
Whatever are you waiting for, Brad?  :icon_biggrin:

Until you make the correction/modifcations you were refering to in your post:  

Quote from: R.G.
...I do have to go slog through the paperwork to get the leads hooked up, wiring diagrams, all that stuff...


BTW, what layout software are you using you mentioned in your post?:

...Pesky layout software won't print holes in pads for toner and they have to be put in by hand...
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 08:45:08 AM by RedHouse »

RedHouse

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2011, 10:52:41 AM »
Ok I downloaded your new PDF (UVICS-2) and I'll have a look later today see if I can help with anything else.   :icon_cool:

Anyway, I'll have a look at yur new UVICS-2 PDF later on, see if I can hawkeye any assistance for ya.

Peace-out.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 11:56:07 PM by R.G. »

Beo

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2011, 02:05:47 PM »
RG, I'm glad you got back to this project. I have a crybaby shell I've been saving for this project. I hope to get this done this summer. My plan was to use a charge pump approach (e.g. MadBean's "RoadRage" w/ TC 1044 or MAX 1044). Since you have the 15V regulator already on board I won't need to duplicate all the parts. I assume there's enough space left in the shell for this extra circuitry?

Brymus

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Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2011, 03:15:48 PM »
I tried a transfer last night,well close, but a few traces bled together.
Definetly not a beginer etch.
I am going to try again tonight.
I'm no EE or even a tech,just a monkey with a soldering iron that can read,and follow instructions. ;D
My now defunct band http://www.facebook.com/TheZedLeppelinExperience

R.G.

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2011, 03:45:37 PM »
RG, I'm glad you got back to this project. I have a crybaby shell I've been saving for this project. I hope to get this done this summer. My plan was to use a charge pump approach (e.g. MadBean's "RoadRage" w/ TC 1044 or MAX 1044). Since you have the 15V regulator already on board I won't need to duplicate all the parts. I assume there's enough space left in the shell for this extra circuitry?

If you mean space inside for an up-verter to make it work on 9Vdc, that's a definite "maybe". There may be enough space at the toe end of the shell, depending on how you package the charge pump, and where you put the extra controls. It is NOT on the PCB. However, a baby perfboard could be tucked in at the toe, I think.

There are a huge number of ways to build a univibe circuit into a shell. Picking and choosing how to do one of them is an interesting chore. For instance, the biggest circuit difference between UVICS and UVICS 2 was leaving the single-pot modification out of -2. It requires a double pot. I may go back and put that in, because there was some space left over. There are many other possibilities for things to put in, things to leave out. One man's great new mod is another man's blasphemous desecration of the holy vintage tone.

 
I tried a transfer last night,well close, but a few traces bled together.
Definetly not a beginer etch.
I am going to try again tonight.
If you'll let me know where you have the most trouble, I now have it where I can tinker with it more easily. I just skinnied-up some fat traces that might have been a problem. Download it again before you print.


R.G.

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Brymus

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Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2011, 05:11:10 PM »
Thanks RG,
The places that I had trouble with are:
* The 4 traces on the right in the ten pin header (D,C,K,and J )
* Where R29 and R3 join under Q5
* And the fat trace around the bulb (just the tight area )

I will try the new version this evening and report back.



« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 05:16:13 PM by Brymus »
I'm no EE or even a tech,just a monkey with a soldering iron that can read,and follow instructions. ;D
My now defunct band http://www.facebook.com/TheZedLeppelinExperience

R.G.

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2011, 06:11:43 PM »
The places that I had trouble with are:
* The 4 traces on the right in the ten pin header (D,C,K,and J )
* Where R29 and R3 join under Q5
* And the fat trace around the bulb (just the tight area )
Download it again. I widened the spaces under the pinout pads as much as I could without moving parts around. I flipped the elbow in the trace under Q5. I narrowed the fat (ground) trace around the bulb.

Thanks for the feedback! Try that one.
R.G.

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kvandekrol

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2011, 08:44:16 PM »
So now that the double pot is back on the table, are there any suitable ones from Mouser or SBE that would fit the gear assembly? The Crybaby pot is a long D shaft.

R.G.

Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2011, 12:21:47 AM »
I think the single-pot mod would fit on a small perfboard outside the PCB. It just won't fit with the ground rules i used - resistors lie down, no traces between 0.1" center pads, 0.025" traces, and designed for toner transfer.

It's kind of like the voltage up-verter question.

A baby board with both the dual-to-single pot circuit and the voltage upverter is possible I guess.
R.G.

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Brymus

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Re: UVICS - Univibe In a Crybaby Shell
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2011, 03:18:55 AM »
The places that I had trouble with are:
* The 4 traces on the right in the ten pin header (D,C,K,and J )
* Where R29 and R3 join under Q5
* And the fat trace around the bulb (just the tight area )
Download it again. I widened the spaces under the pinout pads as much as I could without moving parts around. I flipped the elbow in the trace under Q5. I narrowed the fat (ground) trace around the bulb.

Thanks for the feedback! Try that one.
My pleasure !
The new one isnt printing it the right width,even when no page scaling.
The old version printed exactly right size.

No matter I loaded it in Gimp at 330 DPI and scaled it to exactly your dimensions.
I also trimmed and moved a few spots that were messing me up.
The result:



Now I need to round up the components and power supply  ;D
The fit looks perfect when layed in my empty shell,I just need to notch out the two corners.

I used a # 65 for the smaller pads and a # 60 for the large ones.
I should have used a #68/#70 as the pads are smaller than I am used to.
I think they will be fine as long as I take my time soldering,and dont over heat any of them.
My old etchent took a whole hour to etch this.

I used virgin magazine paper from a print shop.(Thank You Paul C  8) )
It is absolutely like using PNP blue when compared to magazine paper thats been printed on.

My attempt that worked with new layout:
30 seconds on high gently pressing, hitting all the edges,then allowed to cool to handling temp.
And the paper peels off - like PNP blue without any soaking,really amazing.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 03:26:53 AM by Brymus »
I'm no EE or even a tech,just a monkey with a soldering iron that can read,and follow instructions. ;D
My now defunct band http://www.facebook.com/TheZedLeppelinExperience