No Sound... Not in Bypass and not at all

[Ofek Deitch]

All this troubleshooting, and we don't even know if it's getting power.

Please take some voltages (instructions here), and see how they compare to these:





Mike

I'm not sure how to measure the Voltages..
Am I supposed to touch with the negative lead the ground, and with the positive, touch the place I want to measure?
Also, is the multimeter setting in the picture below good for measuring voltages? (I've never done it before, so I'm not sure... )
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71945567@N02/6510658693/in/photostream

BTW, 8.83 is what I got when I touched the Ground and where the positive is connected onto the board with the above setting...

Thanks

[Ofek Deitch]

ohh and the tip on the output is connected to the right place by the way... (I've checked with my meter..   )

[Ofek Deitch]

Well I think it is the right setting, because I pretty much got almost the same voltageד in the spots you told me to measure..

This is what I got:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71945567@N02/6510821583/in/photostream

What do you think?

A few more questions:

• I still don't get sound in Bypass . What can I do??
• Am I supposed to connect anything to the third connection point on the Output jack? (The one that gets disconnected when I insert a cable into the jack..)
• When the switch is off in a True Bypass switch, is the battery still connected? Should I disconnect the Input plug from the Stereo jack? or is it okay to leave it the way it is?

[markeebee]

Hmmmm,  yep, those voltages seem about right, but we have a more fundamental problem.....

So, let's just get this straight:

~  Your guitar works ok
~  Your amp works ok
~  Your cables are ok
~  When you plug your cables in to the pedal, you test between the tip of one cable and the tip of the other cable with your meter, and it beeps ok
~  But then, when you plug the cables into your guitar and amp you get nothing??

I fear that science may be broken and we are now dealing with forces beyond the comprehension of man  

Am I supposed to connect anything to the third connection point on the Output jack? (The one that gets disconnected when I insert a cable into the jack..)

You don't need to.  

When the switch is off in a True Bypass switch, is the battery still connected? Should I disconnect the Input plug from the Stereo jack? or is it okay to leave it the way it is?

Yes, the battery is still connected.  Best to take the input cable out when you're not using the pedal, to stop the battery running down.

[Ofek Deitch]

So what can I do about these unnatural forces?  O.o

[markeebee]

I think that maybe somehow you have got a ground connection and a signal connection mixed up, but I can't see where.  All your pictures look ok.

We need to get help from somebody who actually knows what they're talking about.  Would you mind if I posted a call for help in the main forum?  We will probably get more attention there....

[Ofek Deitch]

No, I don't mind at all..

[earthtonesaudio]

No signal at all points immediately to the in/out/switch wiring, so everyone has been right to focus attention there.

If you don't have an audio probe, you should make one to help figure out where the sound stops.  In the meantime you can check continuity at least:

Plug a cable into the input jack, make sure you have continuity between the cable sleeve and all circuit ground points.  Then make sure you have continuity between the cable tip and the input side of the little yellow cap.  One last thing to check on the input side: resistance between tip and sleeve.  With no guitar connected it should be nearly infinite.

Then plug a cable into the output jack and do similar steps.  Check that the sleeve goes to circuit ground and that tip goes to the - side of the 10u output cap.  Also check resistance between tip and sleeve, it should be about 100k.

Finally test for continuity between input cable tip and output cable tip.

Repeat the above steps with the switch in the opposite position.


To test, plug cables into the input and output.  Leave the other ends of the cables disconnected (i.e. do not hook up a guitar or amp).  You can apply power to the circuit but for this test it is not necessary.
If everything is wired correctly you should get the following results:

[resistance - location]
When switch is set to "effect on":
infinite(ish) - input cable tip to ground
zero - input cable tip to input cap lead
zero - input cable sleeve to ground
100k - output cable tip to ground
zero - output cable tip to 10uF (-) lead
zero - output cable sleeve to ground
infinite - input cable tip to output cable tip

And when the switch is set to bypass the effect:
infinite - input cable tip to ground
infinite - input cable tip to input cap lead
zero - input cable sleeve to ground
infinite - output cable tip to ground
infinite - output cable tip to 10uF (-) lead
zero - output cable sleeve to ground
zero - input cable tip to output cable tip

[Ofek Deitch]

Does:
Infinite resistance = 0 on the meter?

[slacker]

Set your meter to measure resistance or to the continuity test setting and hold the meter leads so that the tips are waving about in the air and not touching anything, there's now infinite resistance between the leads, so whatever is displayed then = infinite resistance.

[arma61]

Glad you have the jack connected properly, one prob less! 

Have you tested the switch with the multimeter ? I never saw a switch like you show on your pictures

1 2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9

in a position 4 5 6 should beep respectively with 1 2 3, and "no beep" with the 7 8 9
on the other position 4 5 6 should beep respectively with  7 8 9, and "no beep" with 1 2 3

once you got what's your middle row, that's the right horizontal orientation of the switch.

Sorry if this sounds too banal... but being the voltage reading almost ok it's worth a try, and takes 10 secs

Ciao

[Ofek Deitch]

I've just re-checked the switch, and it works great. So the switch is not the source of the problem.

But what I get when the switch is switched to Bypass is:
zero - input cable tip to ground
infinite - input cable tip to input cap lead
zero - input cable sleeve to ground
zero - output cable tip to ground
about 100k - output cable tip to 10uF (-) lead
zero - output cable sleeve to ground
zero - input cable tip to output cable tip

[slacker]

Unsolder the wires from the tips of the jacks to the switch, better to do it at the jacks so as not to risk damaging the switch, and then measure the resistance between the tips and sleeves. What do you get?

[Ofek Deitch]

Ok, so I've unsoldered the tips' cables from the jacks, and when I check for resistance I get infinite in both Input and Output.

[earthtonesaudio]

I've just re-checked the switch, and it works great. So the switch is not the source of the problem.

But what I get when the switch is switched to Bypass is:
zero - input cable tip to ground                       This is problem #1, cable tip should not be connected to ground ever.
infinite - input cable tip to input cap lead          Fine
zero - input cable sleeve to ground                  Fine
zero - output cable tip to ground                     Problem #1 again
about 100k - output cable tip to 10uF (-) lead   I only see one way this could happen.  See linked simulation.
zero - output cable sleeve to ground                Fine
zero - input cable tip to output cable tip           Fine

A single point failure!  I think we're close to solving this.


It appears you input signal wire is shorted to ground.  Check this out: link

Note the short could also be at the output jack tip, or on the switch.  Basically anywhere along that top wire.

[slacker]

Ok that's what should happen. The sleeves of the jacks are connected together though the black wires and the connections on the perf board, but there is no connection between the tips and the sleeves.
Now connect a wire between the tip connections on the jacks. If you now measure the resistance you should get zero between the 2 tips, and zero between the 2 sleeves, but infinite between the tips and sleeves. If you do then plug your guitar into the input jack and your amp into the output and you should hear your guitar through the amp.

EDIT: I posted this at the same time as Alex, I was replying to your last post. What I'm asking you do is to try and find out where the short is.

[Ofek Deitch]

How can I find where the tip shorts with the ground?

Thank you!

[earthtonesaudio]

From the pictures I'm actually inclined to think the output wire between board and switch is the culprit.  The - leg of the output cap is awfully close to that ground bus.

Nevermind, I was looking at the wrong cap.  Don't see a short on the circuit board.  Measure again, this time with the switch set to "effect on".  That ought to isolate the short to one side versus the other.

[Ofek Deitch]

But why don't I get sound while bypassing?
Please explain everything as simple as you can because you keep saying smart things a beginner noob like me don't understand.. 

[slacker]

He said the input tip was shorted to ground in bypass though, so the problem must be before the board, in fact as there's no connection to ground on the switch that could be shorting anything out  it's pretty much got to be with the jacks in some way.
There's might be a problem on the board as well but I think we need to get bypass working first.

But why don't I get sound while bypassing?

Did you try the last thing I said? "Now connect a wire between the tip connections on the jacks. If you now measure the resistance you should get zero between the 2 tips, and zero between the 2 sleeves, but infinite between the tips and sleeves. If you do then plug your guitar into the input jack and your amp into the output and you should hear your guitar through the amp."

If this does not work, it means you have a problem with the jacks or they are wired incorrectly.