I'm building a pedal that I'm gonna be either selling to friends or on eBay.  It doesn't have an LED indicator so I bought a X-Wing DPDT to use as the stompswitch...but I've been reading around and aparently selling pedals with X-Wing switches isn't the done thing!

Are they really that bad that I shouldn't risk selling a pedal with one of them?  Ordering a Carling or Blue DPDT from overseas (I live in Australia) will mean alot of extra pain in the ass if the stuff I've heard about X-Wings is just hear-say.  I've even heard that Lovetone use them!

So folks, are X-Wings as bad as some people make out...or is it just the opinion of the sort of people who buy $600 knobs.

They are very affordable and I bought a number of them. To date, every single one has broken. I have seen them used in production pedals and even those have had problems.

I usually switch them out for Carlings.

I'm three for four (broken) with the x-wings.  I'm saving the last one to put into the pedal of a non-payer.  hah.  take that.

I figure that the one that works is just a production mistake.

They can't be that shitty can't they? :? I mean if you're at a gig and heavily stomping on your switches, OK it'll break, but what about soft-footed bedroom action? Would they hold up to that?

Every one I've used has broken, some within a week. Miyama switches have lasted longer and they're junk. The switches Aron sells are great.
  Jered

1. there are at least two different factories making X-wings, I don't know the difference between them, or who sells which.

2. I bought some here in Australia that were shitty a few years ago, but over the last year I havn't seen any trouble.

I know this doesn't really clean things up, but it might explain the differnt opinions re x-wings.

Ah damn I was gonna order some from small bear. :x

How do they fail?

I think Paul might be onto something about different manufacturers.  I've never had a problem with any of the ones I've used.

My Exp. is that when a switch fails, it is aelectro-mechanically oriented problem for which there is no recourse except replacement.
 Maybe if the bottom is falling off [mechanical failure] and you can somehow re-secure it...

I have had the same problems with both the unmarked and the "YIS" branded x-wings from Altronics. I think these are both from the same manufacturer. Often the middle lug is loose on one side (the right side looking from the bottom of the switch, with the slot in the shaft facing up). Unfortunately the lug not being loose is not an indicator of the switch working properly as I started selecting the non loose ones before I bought them and still had problems.

I haven't bought any for a year or so now so I can't say if things have improved.

The problem with them is every so often when you switch them it doesn't make a full contact. They still pass a very weak signal.

I don't think it has anthing to do with the force you switch them with, in fact I think that switching them softly actually results in more failed cycles.

I haven't had any trouble with carling x-wings (like what some rat models use).

I looked at the YIS (Lyric Shin) website a while ago and they had their quality control flow diagram. According to this diagram only products which are pass the test as 'perfective' leave the factory. I think that pretty much sums them up.

Going by experience, I'd say around 5-20% are 'perfective' and of the ones that have the problem (80-95%) I'd estimate they fail between 1-5% of operations. If you or whoever is using them can handle these odds (most will fail a smallish proportion of the time) then go ahead and use them. I had one in my only stage distortion for a couple of years without noticing any trouble. I only replaced it because I had trouble with others. You can be lucky.

Oh, don't get them too hot when you solder them either, that just makes things worse.

I don't know if any of this relates to Small Bear's x-wings as I've never tried them.

Small bear's X-wings are Taiwanese. Anyone have any bad experiences with those?

Quote from: Darren NI have had the same problems with both the unmarked and the "YIS" branded x-wings

Damn.  The one I bought is YIS brand.  I wouldn't want to pass on an unreliable device to anyone so I guess I'll stick to blue 3PDTs.

smoguzbenjamin:  the blue 3pdts can usually be found on eBay for a very reasonable price.

I'm yet to have trouble with the x wing (Yis) switches from Altronics. I have had most of them (7 in total) for about a year. I gig every fortnight and play in the bedroom too...

If you can wait about a month check the following thread out...

http://www.diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=17959&highlight=altronics

I've had a couple fail on me, but the one that's still going strong...is the one I sold in a repair
Phew

when you say fail did they all of a sudden jost stop working or was there more warning (I'm getting scared about gigging with these things!

I've used about 25 X-wings (from Jaycar in Australia) and only ever had a minor problem with one (If you pressed it very lightly, you could get it to "click" without switching.  It would then need a solid press to make it work properly).  Some of my X-wings have had heavy use for 2 years (ie used almost daily).  It's hard to imagine that these could be the same switches that have 3 out of 4 fail after a few days.  Very stange...

I've used quite a few without any problems.  I put one in a buddy's wah about a year ago and its still going strong.

I have just those X-wings at hands here, and maybe two fail pretty quickly but they were X-wing with solder lugs. I have used something like 50 w/solder lugs and they works ! (a climat thing maybe  :lol: ).
They switched from solder lugs to PCB lugs ( :cry: ) some time ago, that's nice too because these are smaller. No report of failure yet (60 or so) but I use to wrap wire along the pin, then solder lightly then cut the exces pin, maybe this helps !?
On the other hand, I experienced a NKK and a 3PDT failures for only 10 or so used... I even manage to completly remove a pin of a 3PDT trying to remove a wire (OK, I will stop wiring at 3.00AM, too much mistakes anyway...)

I'm quite afraid about a 80% failure rate!!!!!!!!!!!! An horrible nightmare, just think about 20 double switches stompboxes to service  :shock: .


Having said that, EH upgraded theirs products to a 3PDT because of that failure and everybody said those X-wind are BAD. Moreover Carling uses to have problems with tooling (too old) and less quality because they switched production to Mexico and they failed too (maybe just a rumor).

I use X-wing because it's the only one currently availiable (pray for me !)

I try to switch to 3PDT, better quality and better number of action/ life

I would love to use NKK (One day I will be ordering 1000 DPDT...not tomorrow either).

Tom

There are TWO problems if you get an Xwing too hot soldering:

1. the body is made of plastic with a suprisingly low melting point & it will just fall apart.
2. the internal lubricant will go very liquid & run over the contacting parts.. whihc is perfectly OK for the intended application of these switches (mains power) but not for audio. At least I think this is a problem.