What voltages should I be looking for at the opamp and the tube?
 AC and DC voltages in circuit?
 Also with that, is it possible to run two or three power supplies on this and eliminate the diode/cap voltage increasing section [lower left of schematic?
 This first build is probably a bench project, messy at this point, with 'third draft' [and 'scrbbles and scratch outs'], on the board, it's getting trickier to follow the 'plan'.
 I need to start a new board...but still would like to give this mess another shot.
 The PS's measured 10.86VAC is increased to 14.??VDC at the opamp, and the tubes "Drain' is at 14.?? DC volts...the Gate and source of the tube reading high voltages like 13.85Vdc or so...no room to amplify with those voltages.

Okay first off, terminology:

With tubes,

Drain = "Plate"
Source = "Cathode"
Gate = "Grid"

Your grid and cathode voltages are not right- way too high. You have some sort of wiring error there.

The power supply is not a voltage doubler. It has a half-wave rectifier that converts the 12vac input into 2 bipolar DC rails. One should measure +15v and the other -15v or thereabouts. Your supply voltages look okay. Make sure anything in the circuit that is supposed to tie to the -15V rail does tie there and not to ground.

Doug

I'mma gonna type it for memory purposes
 Drian=Plate
 Grid= Gate
 Source=cathode
 I'll be a whacking away at this thing for a time er two...Oh yeahh...I'mma gonna be getting it!!!...I don't care how long it takes !!!

Keep at it pete, you'll figure it out eventually. I did.  :wink:

You'll get it Pete, I have no doubt.

(now the flip side is that you may become addicted to tubes , just remember..... everything in moderation )

Keep on keeping on.
-Peter

Yes, tube stuff is addictive. Don't say we didn't warn you.  

:wink:  oh yeah... just tubes are addctive... :wink:

Let me get back to my next stompbox build I'm working at, yeah I have control over it, it's not addictive  
lol
Kleber AG
PS: Sorry Paul :lol:

I've already been addicted to tubes now, for decades !!!
 I just haven't started 'growing my own' tube circtuits yet.
 If tubes are like anything else 'grow your own', the 'real' premium stuff, off the top of the batch, is either grown by you, or is gonna tend to cost ya !!!
 Oh Yeahh...I'm gonna get it.  
 And I know I'll like it, just as you say, and it is merely the first step !!!
 Wish me luck...I had to come up to drop off some coffee, just plugging in actives and about to add power to #2 !!!...right after I recheck that all the B's Grounds and V+'s, are connected where they should be...I don't think there are any stray connections on this one, but I'll probe around anyway.
 The Tube socket mounting is solid, it's a PCB 9 pin, I used the hole in the middle. the bolt goes through the bottom of the two bolted together pieces of perf, through the 1/2'' sheath [this keeps the lugs up off the board about 1/4'', and tapped perfectly into the tube socket !!!

At V+,  on the other side of the 50k [actual 47k] from pin 6...
 It reads.....+...,+10.34V DC
 Aha on the other side of that same 47k, on pin 6..it reads...it reads
 NEGATIVE or -8.47 Volts DC...
 That's negative V on one side of a resistor from ground, positive on the other...WHEW... :?  :?
 Is this like normal for tubes, I've never heard of such a thing. Wierd to me anyway...
 So the power supply half died...I'm reading 14.4 VDC for V+ daughhh...
 I've asked this unorthodox question before....
 What voltages do I need, or need to look for at V+. V- and B???
 And if that's the case what reason is there I couldn't supply whatever power is needed where for the circuit using more than one power supply and bypass the power supply section?
 What are the requirements for the power supply's wall wart? I'm using a 9VDC wall wart [it used to measure 14 or so volts in circuit, I haven't measured it lately] rated at 780 Ma.
 I would like to get the circuit going without having to mess with that power supply section, as I've laid it out and wired it carefully and debugged till it kept buggin...I can go through it like it's on the back of my hand now...
 I figure pin the grids aughtta be about 1/2 what the plate is, and the cathode should be nearer to ground....nowhere close to that.
 One chewey build !!! Been hankin' on it for days now...
 If the tubes are bad [I tried another. it lit for a second or two...musta leaked[?] would that cause the voltages on both sides to be screwey?
 Maybe  :idea:  will come up...the power supply drop of more than half on V+, the wall wart disconnected now reads 10.84 VAC of original 14.XX VDC.
  Hmmmmm....it still lights the tube at least...that other power...I have a 30VDC 'big power supply, batteries that get up to 14.+ VDC...A 16VDC or AC train transformer, a 20V slot car iron....ug probly others if I look around...need more power somehow....
 Do you think I exceeded the rating on that 9V wall wart???

I'm about to keep the tube heater lit the way it is, run the opamp off of a battery, and run a 30VDC supply through the cathode/plate part of the tube...any suggestions or warnings???

Where would pin 4 of the opamp be connected?

The Tube voltages with the 30VDC wallwart seem good...34V at the plate, ~1/2 that at the grid, and  cathode reads 0, a little funny with the caps [could be blown...lol] and that 1k resistor on them.
 I'm using 1/4 watt resistors for everything except the 10 ohm.
 I believe the tube is functioning with it passing sound nicely [no boost] and the voltages look similar to transistor volatges that work right!!!
 The op amp is on a separate supply of 9V or 14V DC, [battery clip], but I cant get the pin voltages on that to behave..funny there are only X # parts there, and man they look right in there, tried a couple more OA's...the output pin 1 is at 1.xxV or about 1/13th supply voltage...hmmm
 So next the other distortion/boost device replaces the opamp section
 BWahhh ha ha ha ha...might be cool !!! Should have another report soon here !!!
 Here's the report!!! With the separate power supplies for heater 10.84VAC, and a 37VDC for the apmlifier part power supply, it passes some sound...even with the tube out :cry: My guess is that it is passing throught the power supply, because of before and after testing, and there's no other possible way, this build is spread out, the only way I can see it could get through with no tube in the socket is through the 4 X 10k seriesed resistors and the power supply, I disconnected the opamp section and tapped right into the 10k array with the coupling cap that came off of OA pin 1.
 Makes for quite the thing to type about and work on for days on end .. ! ! ! Should I choose to continue this tomorrow that'll be four, today I spent only about 10+ hours solid on it...well I assembled attempt #2 also.
 I'm thinking that V+ just won't work with a simple DC supply for some reason.  Anyone have any ideas about this?

Are you building the Shaka Tube?

If so, point me to the schematic, I can't find it.

I'll take a look and see if I can help.

Doug

Thank you for your Time !!!
 http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/schems/shakatube.gif
 There's the link, I just went to search, typed in Shaka Tube, then author Aron...brings up the page, and the link is on a thread titled Shaka Tube !
 Yes the sound is getting around pin 2 somehow...must be the 4 X seriesed 10k's that are connected to B...the only path I can see for the Electrisound to travel on it's way to the output side...
 With the power section [diodes and 470uf caps etc] 'in, the sound doesn't escape...with the 37VDC wall wart as alternate power source [what I have here left to work with today]...that's when the bleed through began.
 This time I used an oversized board, all connections are separated by at least one open perfhole, and spread out so as to be easily seen and tested.
 The DMM has been applied to the circuit quite liberally, and all the connections on the board, 'read' as stated on the schematic [minus the section to the left the V+'s 470R, replaced by the wall wart].

Okay, first off, you can't use a DC wall-wart with the bipolar power supply. It MUST be AC. That's why your voltages on ea end of the 47k looked so weird. As I mentioned before, V+ and V- should be around +-15v or thereabouts, I would guess B should be set to whatever gets you near zero at pin 1 and 6 (or whatever sounds good).

Now, if you want to use a 30V DC wall-wart and leave out the power supply, just ground the B and V- points and hook your 30VDC to the V+ points. Now, for the op-amp you will need a 10k/10k divider to get the Vbias for the opamp. Connect the V+ of the opamp to 30vdc, ground the V-, and hook up Vbias to the bottom of the 470k resistor that is connected to opamp pin 3 (instead of ground). (You should be familiar with this drill if you have played with any 9v op amp circuts). Put, say, a 47uf filter cap from Vbias to ground and another one from V+ to ground.

You can use a separate wall-wart for your heaters, but what would work even better would be to use a 12v (or  6v) voltage regulator and get a DC heater supply right out of your 30v supply. I have a scheme for doing this written up at home, I'll get back to you later on that.

Doug

I'm on it !!!
 Thank you for finding a possible alternative power for this !!!
 I really appreciate the 'help you neighbor vibe' !!!
 and...I should have a revised report here soon !!!!

I think I can find an opamp circuit that works around here lol.
 Ok subject at hand..well, maybe I have a miswire, I've had em before, even in light of such extensive double checking and debugging, but I smoked a little 10k wafer, just near one extreme setting [near to the all the way down setting], but the rest of the range is probably still ok...about 1/8'' of the range got scorched.
 It seems if Vbias [via the wiper of the adjustable 10k splitter pot, with V+ and V- on the outer lugs], is connected to V- And Ground, the tubes don't bias.
 I have a bias on the tubes of 37. VDC on the plates, very near 1/2 that on the grids, and the cathodes at less than one volt...these voltages, to a novice tube biaser such as myself...look like that tube Should amplify...
 With the tube lit, and these [what seem to a seasoned transistor and opamp biaser, that resembles myself] good looking bias voltage readings...that pin 7 [the last grid in the circtuit] should cause a signal to be output from pin 6, the last plate...at pin 6...with only a few passives between it and output, of course the signal injected at pin 6 flows to the amplifier...whatever pin 6 sees will be heard...but pin 7 ... nada with signal injected through a DC blocker there......
 Which..leads me to think a possible bad tube...I remember that Mullard and also the Ampex, as working if not still very good...
 Is it possible to damage a tube with 37VAC and 14DCV
 It seems nonsensical, simply because I can't make sense of it .
 [OT] Arrow called me today in regards to me TI sample order, I think they're evlauating.. ... ..I said: "YES the chips arrived three days after ordering, they are really excellent chips, And yes, I would use them again", then when asked would I order from them I said> "NO :evil: "> [not] lol.."Yes when I need some chips I'll order from TI".
 The nice thing about TL082's that I bought bofre I got these samples is that I've blown at least one...instead of blowing a 'nice' chip like 5532 or 4558.
 4559 is supposed to be used as a dual opamp???...in the tested, good circuits I've tried this one on, I've gotten nada...I musta blown that too, somehow, or it was a dud to begin with..,the sparks were flying today, smoke arising, but the circuit doesn't even seem to care in the very least about That' !!!

Okay Pete,

Here's what you do for the heaters:

From your 30v source you need a big power resistor, like 25 ohm at 10 or 15W. From there you hook up an LM7812 voltage regulator (available at Radio Shack). On the "output" side of the regulator you want to put a big filter cap. (I had used 220uf, you may not need it quite that big). You will have good, clean 12VDC there which you can feed to your tube heater. Send it to pin 4, ground pin 5, leave pin 9 disconnected.

Here's the deal with the power resistor:

The voltage regulator needs a voltage that's ~3v or more higher than your target output voltage. So you want to feed the regulator at least 15v. If you feed it too high of a voltage, it will be trying to dissipate a lot of power and it can go into thermal shutdown. (These regulators have a built-in safety feature where if they overheat, they will shut down for a few minutes until they cool off).

So let's say you decide to feed it 15v, you will need to drop 15v (30-15=15) across the resistor. We want to have plenty of current available for your tube heater, which needs 300ma. Plus, I'm guessing we will lose some current in the regulator. So by using a 25ohm resistor we will have 15v/25ohm = 600ma of current available. For grins lets say we pull that maximum available current. You then have 15v*600ma = 9W of power being dissipated by the resistor. You probably won't pull that much current with just one tube (which also means you probably won't be pulling this voltage all the way down to 15V but that's okay, it doesn't have to me exact). But to be safe you might want to opt for a 15W or 20W resistor. This resistor will get HOT so don't touch it when it is powered up. Give it plenty of breathing room in your final build. Don't crowd it with, say, an electrolytic capacitor. That's bad news... Electrolytics don't like heat.

One more thing. You will need to heat sink the voltage regulator. If you get the reg at radio shack they sell a "heat sink kit" or something that has a nut, bolt and insulator in it. In your final build you will want to use this to attach the top metal tab of the regulator to your chassis. While playing on the breadboard you can get an aluminum heat sink to attach to it. This will dissipate the heat. Without it, the regulator will most definitely go into thermal shutdown.

You can experiment with different value resistors, just make sure they have an adequate power rating. As I mentioned above, the "input" voltage to the regulator does not have to be exactly 15V. Keep in mind, the higher it is, the more power the regulator dissipates, the more important adequate heat-sinking becomes.

If this sounds complex, don't worry, it's pretty simple. You will see when you get the parts together.  The regulators look like a power MOSFET and are dirt cheap. This works like a charm too.

Doug

Pete,

You don't want to use the bias pot on here at all. If you're using your 30vdc supply, just dump the bias pot. The B and V- points all go to ground.

Doug

That's about it...
 Now I wonder...I'm running the tube off of 37VDC, Do I need a regualtor or is tying B and V- to ground enough to run the tube...I get 36v at plates the rest 0 voltage trying it this way.
 I'm alternating between 14.4VAC and 10.86 V DC for the heaters, either seems to light the tube..which is preferable [if any]?
 From what I understand you're recommending a regulator for the heater, so I can run the entire tube off of one power supply wall wart...is this correct?
 For now getting voltages that look decent AND have the second half of the tubes plate produce output is my immediate goal...trying to simplify matters by reducing the variables wherever possible for this stage of tube wirings...I'm not disconnecting anything from the circuit except the opamp, I have boosters and Fuzzes I can chain there for testing and worry about the OA part later...I'm approaching this from an academic view...see if I can figure a little bit out about part of a tube at least...if I get circuit lit up, that would hold a novelty for a time !!!
  See it's not all about Having It right away, just getting it right in some reasonable semblance of time...lol !!! :evil:
 Perhaps I'm missing something about biasing tube section alone, IE it needs the other sides signal path connectied to the related circuitry to go, but nothing of course gets through the second half, the first half is moot too. The first half IS actually there and reverified countless times on a EZ read layout,,,Hmmm... :oops: ...not too bad, just one of those things I guess..I think the Mullard tube had leaked, it burned for only a second er two, bright tho, in the peak of the peak of the transient lighting.
 So I hooked B and V- to ground, and put 37vDC on the plate resistors...but It didn't seem to respond well to that...
 Meanwhile I took a good break and tried some 'pre' boxes with my >phaze 90, Blues Breaker, and Hot Silicon in 1 big long flat box.
 The OS Compressor, proves simplle IS good, actually Great, it has a little top end boost [or is that low end cut??? OS into Hot Silicon..[I'm using two BCxxx's and two 5089's] is really something to play !!!