i'm planning to build a tube amp (in the near future)
i have never dealt with tubes but i don't want to build a beginner tube amp
cause i won't have the money to build another one soon...
what i want is to build a well-known tone amp such as vox,marshall,fender,etc
but i want it to be as easy as possible
any suggestions of a good and easy tube amp build???

any guide for building that amp???

www.ax84.com -> check it out...

probably P1 for the first project...
i did the HiOctane and it rips really... haven't heard a marshall that sounded so good like my HO... especially the jcm2000 - HO eats them tonewise for breakfast

at least in my opinion - and i worked in a guitar shop and tried lots of newer marshalls...

:shock:

cheers!

i would not recommend making anything too hugely powered, and the 5-7W from the P1 or HO is quite decent, and just remember 5W is half as loud as 50W NOT 1/10th!!

If you refuse to build a 5-7W amp, then i would recommend either trying the P1-Extreme which i believe uses an EL34 and is about 15W(), or you could go for an 18watter, and you'll have a lot of people from the 18W forum to help you with those specific builds.

I only suggest that you don't go for a very high gain amp, because no matter how well you think you can layout the amp, it seems there is always a way that oscillation will sneak into the amp... (evil oscilation!  :evil: )

saying this - i must add that i haven't built a tube amp myself, so nothing i say is be all end all, but i've been looking at, and reading about them for over a year now,

trent

www.dobermanamps.com

oops, the above is the same as the AX84 dealio.

also consider doing a search on Ebay for "tube guitar pa," or "tube pa."  you can modify old tube pa amps, which cost like $40-$100 to your style.  i normally buy from an ebayer called vaccumtube.  his mods rule.

here's some more things:

http://www.stf-electronics.com/ (nice looking products)

also,
www.torresengineering.com (many a kit for you)

You could also build the 18W minimalist like the beauty shown a few threads away, they sound great.
I have to say though, although I would consider some of the project amps at ax84 beginner, they don't sound beginner- a lot of thought has gone into each design and they are world class amps rivalling anything(IMHO).
Regan

Wan't a real beginner Amp that sounds amazing? What I did was build the Fender 5F1 Champ, then later update it to one of the fender vibro champs.

These amps sound good, are easy to build, and the parts are easily adaptable. I know Doberman Ams, Angela music and Ampwares all have the transformers. At ampwares the output transformer is $23.00, and the power is $55.00 (and mind you, with these two trans. You can build all the fender 6V6 amps (Champ, Bronco, Vibro Champ)  The caps are quite cheap too. These are the ideal amps for real beginners. + the tubes are real cheap. and easy to work with. A nice Electo Harmonix 6V6 pair is only $20 the 12AX7A is $9.50, and unlike other small amps, this has a tube rectifier section so you get some sag also.  the power tube is a 5Y3GT and is $7.00 You can get the whole thing done for under $200 if you want to buy everything. Well thats my honest opinion.

LM 250+

Quote from: sir_modulusYou can get the whole thing done for under $200 if you want to buy everything.

Not to be rude or anything, but if you can build me a 5F1 Champ for under $200, I'll buy a dozen of them (seriously)!  Unless you get a bunch of stuff for free and/or don't count your time, it's impossible to save money by building your own amp.  

Put another way, unless you're cloning an expensive boutique or vintage piece, you're going to be in the hole (especially if you only do one - it makes sense to buy all the tools only if you're going to be making multiple amps, so you spread the cost around).  Taking the 5F1 as an example, your parts breakdown is something like this:

- Transformers: $75-100
- Tubes: $25-50
- Chassis: $20 (plain Hammond) to $70 (WeberVST 5F1 Chassis Kit)
- Speaker: $50-100
- Cabinet: $100-250 depending on wood and covering
- Tube sockets, pots, caps, resistors, solder, pilot light, wire, jacks, feet, corners, etc. etc. $20-50+

What's that you say, you're going to save by fabricating your own chassis and cabinet?  Alright then, what about a chassis punch ($30-100), drill press and bits, files, silkscreening... not to mention woodworking tools, a band or mitre saw, planer, joiner, clamps, glues, etc. etc.

Now consider your time - is this going to be a learning experience or weekend hobby project?  If you're a beginner you could easily sink 100 hours into this (building, troubleshooting, driving around for parts, etc.) at let's say $5/hour if you're a minimum wage type of guy.

Also consider that SF Champs are easily available in the $200-250 range.  If you want something big that you can grow into, look for used off-brand amps, like old Traynors, Sunns, etc.  It's far easier/cheaper to mod an old amp than to scratch build.

hello~
i just recently built a minimalist 18watter clone: http://18watt.com/Storage/18minwatt.gif

it was a pretty good challenge to me... i've probably built over a 100 pedals or so.. and designed a few of my own circuits/layouts..

i think that the p1 layout at house of jim seen here: http://members.shaw.ca/house-of-jim/Images/Layouts/P1%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf

thats probably the clearest layout i've seen..

another idea might to be to build a tube pedal project to get used to powering/wiring tubes.. i remember wishing i had a little tube experience when i was building and debugging my 18watter... i'm kind of a slow learner tho..
hope all this helps man,

nightingale

I think i might go for that (p1) --hope it sounds good. Where would i get more infor about it. I went to the link you provided and it dont seem too complicated..But id need values ect...

thanks,

jim

Sorry, I forgot to be more explicit, as I meant without a speaker cab. I was meaning to jsut use the amp as a head. With speaker cab it would cost:

Resistors (mouser):
1/2W @ 0.08 cents ea (Vishay/Dale)  x 7 = $00.56
1W    @ 0.32 cents ea (Vishay/Dale)  x 1 = $00.32

Capacitors (AmpWares):
0.022uf  orange drops @ $1.00 ea     x 2 = $02.00
0.047uf  orange drops @ $1.25 ea     x 1 = $01.25
08uf   450V electro     @ $3.00 ea     x 2 = $06.00
16uf   450V electro     @ $4.75 ea     x 1 = $04.75  
25uf   050V electro     @ $1.25 ea     x 1 = $01.25

Potentiometer(AmpWares):
1M Audio Taper          @ $1.75 ea     x1 = $01.75

Transformers(AmpWares):
Power                       @ $55.00 ea    x1 = $55.00
Output                      @ $32.00 ea    x1 = $32.00

Tubes(AmpWares):
6V6 EH                                               =  $10.00
12AX7EH                                            =  $09.50
5Y3GT                                                =  $07.00

Extras(AmpWares):
Knob(black skirted)   @ $03.50 ea         = $03.50
Power Cord(marshall + input socket)     = $07.50
SPST switch (on/off/standby)                = $03.75
fuse holder                                          = $02.00
2 amp slo-blo fuse        x2                    = $01.50
Pilot light + jewel                                 = $04.00
Pilot light assembly                              = $06.00
Jacks (2 input + 1 output)(radio shack)  = $03.00
Octal sockets               x2                    = $05.50
9 pin socket (/wshield)                         = $02.25
18 ga. stranded, cloth jacket, 4ft           = $02.00
Amp Chassis(hammond)(unknown)       = $30.00

Cabinet(misc):
Speaker (Amp W.) C8R 8" Jensen 4 Ohm 25 Watt
$29.00
Corner protectors (Amp W. with lip + screws x 4
$06.00
Speaker Cloth (dunno)the one at ampwares is WAY to big, so roughly
$05.00
Wood (MDF 1/2 INCH) sides and top/bottom is like $30-$40
Wood (MDF 3/4 INCH) Front/Back is like $20

That makes the total:
Amp:     $202.38            
Cabinet: $100

Total $302.38


So,  it is pretty cheap and $200 for the amp. That cab is $100 extra, and this is with using pretty good components.

LM 250+

jimbob~

here is the link: http://www.ax84.com/home.html

it was cruzing this site that gave me the "flame" to build an amp..
there are loads of sounds samples, and pictures of every project.. and some safety imformation..

there is even an amazing theory that goes with the P1 amp: http://ax84.com/media/ax84_m35.pdf

this theory PDF tought me more about electronic theory than just about anything i have seen.. it explains it in a very slow simple way..

just for a heads up~
drillling the steel chassis was really hard for me.. especially the tube socket holes, it got a little scary with my drill press... if $ is not as much as a concern... it might save trouble to buy a pre-punched chassis..

here are some hot sites that sell amp building stuff.. they are fun to cruz if you are considering a build...

http://hoffmanamps.com/  lots of hidden info....

http://www.angela.com/  

http://mojotone.com/http://mojotone.com/    has lots of chassis/cabs...

http://tubesandmore.com/     i've gootne great stuff on sale here!

http://ampwares.com/      huge inventory!

http://18watt.com/index.php      last but not least....

enjoy!

Quotethis theory PDF tought me more about electronic theory than just about anything i have seen.. it explains it in a very slow simple way..

Im glad its slow like that so i can figure it out as well.

I appreciate the time you spent finding me the links ect...im going to give them a look .

jim

well i was thinking about a vox ac 30...without the tremolo channel that would be my 1st choice since i'm a huge brian may fan...
it is not a high gain amp so i believe i won't have any great problem with oscillation as stated above
then i would go for something like a nice tweed fender (princeton etc) or a vintage marshall
what do you think about that is it easy for the first tube amp project to build a vox?

no problem jimbob~
best luck gathering the parts, and building your amp..

changes~
i am far from an amp building expert.. but the problems i see with building the ac30 as a 1st build..

first, wiring all of the extra pots/jacks, and building the tone control section..

here is the closest thing to an ac30 lite vesrion i am aware of: http://hoffmanamps.com/images/AC30.gif

good layouts are important for making your turret/eyelet board IMO...

if you go to www.ax84.com there is a project called the voxy lady... it might be worth taking a look at too..? not sure..?

it als helped me alot to take the time and study the schematic, and layout and really understand waht the stages/parts funtion is to the circuit before  
you start the build..
hope this helps,

I like Doug Hammond's Octal Fatness. It's a great amp, and it's not too complicated to build. About a 5 watt amp or so.

My first build was the Firefly, then a Matchless Spitfire clone. My latest build is the Octal Fatness.

I agree with Paul for more than 1 reason, first off the Vox is a class A amp, They are very sensitive to the Bais that you need to know a lot about, Most Vox's that I've worked on had problem's with bais and burnt out part's, mostly due to the uneducated salesman at the local music supply store, there fav saying is, " sure no problem, just shove them new tube's in there, it'll work " yeah, if your lucky maybe a few hour's,
the best bet for someone wanting to learn about amp's is start out with a single ended tube amp, like a champ, with cathode or fixed bais, the amp has a different attitude depending on which method you choose,
or build a AB amp push pull, they are the most forgiving amp's.
I'm not saying a vox is not a good amp to build, i'm just saying it's not a good amp for a beginner to build.
Just like here, Aron has some nice simple build's to get you started, and that's what you should do if your gonna build tube amp's, start out easy, it's much simpler to debug the problem's you may have if it's only got 3 or 4 tube's.
I think Doug's Octal Fatness would be a great project if you wanna get introduced to tube's, and Doug has it already layed out with several good thread's with picture's and spec's with some good soundclip's of what you get if you do it right.
There are a lot of tube project's to pick from,Choose one and have fun,
Johnny

I wouldn't tackle an ac30 right out off the bat, your looking at a lot of expense in parts that you could ruin pretty easy, and ac30's are finicky amps. If you are dead set on going this route what about the ac15, matchless spitfire, or better yet, the marshall 18W with the ef86 channel added on, this is a well rounded amp that will get lots of good tone.
Regan

The Matchless Spitfire is a 15 watt Class AB amp using a pair of EL84s with a high bias current. A lot of people have done that one for their first build. If you do build it, I would suggest that you get the 15 watt transformer set from West Labs. It costs a little more, but I think it's worth the investment.

The Octal Fatness is a ~5 watt true Class A amp that uses a single 6V6 power tube.

The Firefly is about a 1 watt amp that uses a 12AU7 in a self-split configuration. This amp is also a push-pull type. I think it's a Class A amp, IIRC.

If it's single ended, 1 power tube, it's a class, no push/pull !
Johnny