I'm really sorry to ask this dumb question but I still consider myself a new stompbox builder.  After doing a search and finding threads that date back to 2003 '04 this was addressed but I had to find out for myself. 
When looking at the Tonepad site, to build a 808 as opposed to a TS-9 there are two resistors at the tail end of the circuit that you swap out.  I put a DPDT switch in to swap these two resistors around.  Well I hear absolutely no audible difference.  According to past threads there is a lot more to it than just those two resistors.  My question is why did Tonepad show this as the only thing you need to do to make each of these two pedals?  I know about the poly and tantalum caps and the special IC's but what was the point of showing these resistors in the first place?  Or should I hear an audible difference by swapping these resistors and that I made an error in the mod?  Again I'm sorry for drumming up such an old issue.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Tube Screamer mojo. The only difference between an old TS9 and a TS808 is those resistors, changing them probably makes no audible difference as you've found out.
It's just that a myth has grown up that TS808s are somehow better than TS9s so people want to do the mod. If you're comparing newer reissue TS9s or TS5s or TS10s with old TS9s or 808s then the opamps are also different, but again how much difference that makes is debatable.
Have a look at the  geofx technology of the Tube Screamer article which explains the differences and why changing those resistors does very little.

The resistor mod only seems to make a difference with tube preamps with lower value series input resistors with the TS going into the tube amp.

There is something to the 808 myth.  I have heard two that sounded great.

I did my first TS mod in 95 and have modded a good number over the years for friends, 9's,10's,9 turbos,5s,7s.

IMO it is only realy heard with a very good guitar player using a guitar, TS and the right tube amp,

The stufff you read on the web seems to make things a bigger deal than they realy are The change is not great between a 808 and a 9 or 10.

One day a friend brought over two 808s.  We wanted to mod a TS7 to sound like it for stage use.  Spent a few hours trying things in the ts7,  got close but still not the last part of the sound.  I have not heard any TSs stock/modded or other company clones that sound like a good real 808.

Quote from: Gus on January 21, 2007, 04:03:51 PM
IMO it is only realy heard with a very good guitar player using a guitar

Well that quote leaves me out then.   Plus I don't have a tube amp either.

I'm not sure about the guitarist having to be "great" but with any "TS" circuit, it sure helps
to be infront of a VERY loud amp  !!
You just WONT hear major differences in your bedroom, infact most stompboxes only come
into their own at rehearsals and/or on stage with a decent amp.

MM

oldrocker

  First reason I posted was you posting not hearing anything different with the resistors.  I agree with you with a solid state amp(and even most tube amps) I don't hear a difference.  The output stage resistor change is over done on the web IMO.  It is cool you did the test and posted what you heard

The good player part was for a 808 vs a 9.  That is what we did at the house A GOOD OLD  808 can be more pick attact sensitive: however it is a small difference.

MM
yes TSs do seem to sound the best at stage volume.

Hey Gus,  I'm just laughing at myself with your quote.  I guess I got overly excited when modding my DIY 808 to a TS-9.  I was expecting something really different and got dissappointed when I didn't hear nothing earth shattering.  Like a fool I kept checking over and over thinking I was doing something wrong.  I read the Geo  (The technolgy of the Tube screamer article) a while back but I still thought the resistors would sound different.  Oh well live and learn.

Honestly, when I hear someone talk about old 808's that sound good, I don't think it is *because* it is an 808...I just think that with time the components have drifted a bit and warmed up the tone.

Quote from: wampcat1 on January 22, 2007, 08:47:43 AM
Honestly, when I hear someone talk about old 808's that sound good, I don't think it is *because* it is an 808...I just think that with time the components have drifted a bit and warmed up the tone.

funny how time and drifting always warms the tones rather than leaving you with something tin-sounding and dulled down.

if they both sounded the same then i'd keep it ts808 for knowing the mojo is there. i did the ts9>ts808 mod and i actually thought that it sounded that bit better. that could have been the resistors, it could have been the jrc4558d op amp, OR it could have been me hearing what i wanted to!!

an anecdote: a semi-famouse australian artist gave me her ts9 to repair as the drive pot and knob had snapped off. i told her i'd give it back to her at her next gig. i repaired it with a knob shipped from ibanez and a tiny pot from tubesandmore (usa). i did the conversion also, but without telling her. i stuck around for the gig and at the end she asked me what i did to it because it sounded better for some reason.

Quote from: wampcat1 on January 22, 2007, 08:47:43 AM
Honestly, when I hear someone talk about old 808's that sound good, I don't think it is *because* it is an 808...I just think that with time the components have drifted a bit and warmed up the tone.

Sorry, don't buy it.  I've built too many TS clones already and what I can say about them is simply that most of the things said on the internet about them are just myths.  I've been in the electronic industry for enough years to know that parts stacking can be a very magic word.

Please understand that I don't think there's enough difference between 4558 ICs to make a worthwhile difference.  I use the 2043, which analog man said was only used in the TS during a period when they didn't sound all the good.  I take he's accusing the chip and not manufacturing and other parts that where probably also different.  I find the 2043 to have better headroom and thereby better note definition.  They're also a tiny bit less noisy.  Otherwise their the same and any 4558.

I also found that better xters in the buffers are a good investment for lower noise and headroom.  I'm using simple 2N5088s and have found them far better and consistent than 2n3904s.

Somebody is wondering what's Component Stacking and this is simply the end result of the whole as compared to the individual parts.  They all have a level of tolerance or accuracy and when this is factored in over the entire build you can get some poor to great results.  It seems that the more parts used in anything will also help to even out these inaccuracies.

I will agree that the TS is best used in front of a tube amp that's dimed.  This doesn't mean loud because I have a 15 watter that just rocks and it's very decent for most medium volume uses.  I think it has mostly to do with power amp saturation that just brings out the best in an amp.  Solid state simply can't pull it off.  Oddly, I'm a big fan of the few Marshalls, Artist I think, that where produced with a solid state front end and a tube output.  They really sound far better than the tube preamp and solid state power amp units out there.  There is magic in the power amp.  This also explains why the RunOffGroove designs are so cool.

If you want to put in a really usable resister switch, put a 1k resister in parallel with the 4k7 in the feedback loop to Vb and have them so you can switch between these.  It gives an instant and simple boost.  Check out the Overdone Fulldive by Steve Cerutti.  It's cool.

UE

I'm REAL surprized that she noticed !!
That conversion is such a small change, the "real" TS-9 that I still own and use is
a reissue, probably 1999, I replaced the opamp with a proper JRC4558 and also did the
usual gain/tone mods, including reducing the 220n from pin 1 to a 100n.
With one 1N4001 and one 4148 diode, I think it sounds great .... LOUD !

MM.

Quote from: Unclerny on January 22, 2007, 09:41:57 AM

Quote from: wampcat1 on January 22, 2007, 08:47:43 AM
Honestly, when I hear someone talk about old 808's that sound good, I don't think it is *because* it is an 808...I just think that with time the components have drifted a bit and warmed up the tone.

Sorry, don't buy it.  I've built too many TS clones already and what I can say about them is simply that most of the things said on the internet about them are just myths.  I've been in the electronic industry for enough years to know that parts stacking can be a very magic word.

Please understand that I don't think there's enough difference between 4558 ICs to make a worthwhile difference.  I use the 2043, which analog man said was only used in the TS during a period when they didn't sound all the good.  I take he's accusing the chip and not manufacturing and other parts that where probably also different.  I find the 2043 to have better headroom and thereby better note definition.  They're also a tiny bit less noisy.  Otherwise their the same and any 4558.

I also found that better xters in the buffers are a good investment for lower noise and headroom.  I'm using simple 2N5088s and have found them far better and consistent than 2n3904s.

Somebody is wondering what's Component Stacking and this is simply the end result of the whole as compared to the individual parts.  They all have a level of tolerance or accuracy and when this is factored in over the entire build you can get some poor to great results.  It seems that the more parts used in anything will also help to even out these inaccuracies.

I will agree that the TS is best used in front of a tube amp that's dimed.  This doesn't mean loud because I have a 15 watter that just rocks and it's very decent for most medium volume uses.  I think it has mostly to do with power amp saturation that just brings out the best in an amp.  Solid state simply can't pull it off.  Oddly, I'm a big fan of the few Marshalls, Artist I think, that where produced with a solid state front end and a tube output.  They really sound far better than the tube preamp and solid state power amp units out there.  There is magic in the power amp.  This also explains why the RunOffGroove designs are so cool.

If you want to put in a really usable resister switch, put a 1k resister in parallel with the 4k7 in the feedback loop to Vb and have them so you can switch between these.  It gives an instant and simple boost.  Check out the Overdone Fulldive by Steve Cerutti.  It's cool.

UE

I think you misunderstood me, my point was the same as yours.
the drifiting of parts and the sum of that, leading to a desired product.
Don't get me wrong, I think it goes the other way too -- sometimes the same pedal will sound like poo after years.

bw

Quote from: darron on January 22, 2007, 09:37:43 AM

Quote from: wampcat1 on January 22, 2007, 08:47:43 AM
Honestly, when I hear someone talk about old 808's that sound good, I don't think it is *because* it is an 808...I just think that with time the components have drifted a bit and warmed up the tone.

funny how time and drifting always warms the tones rather than leaving you with something tin-sounding and dulled down.

umm...not so much.
I think it goes both ways.

bw

I built this mod into my TS, and when I did a bench test through a small 15W solid state amp, I heard no audible difference.  But, later I was using it through my v4, cranked up pretty loud there was an audible (however slight) difference, which was a little more pronounced with certain pickups as well.  Although, as I always say with these sorts of things, I couldn't tell you either way which one sounded "better" to my ears.

Quote from: wampcat1 on January 22, 2007, 12:11:55 PM

Quote from: darron on January 22, 2007, 09:37:43 AM

Quote from: wampcat1 on January 22, 2007, 08:47:43 AM
Honestly, when I hear someone talk about old 808's that sound good, I don't think it is *because* it is an 808...I just think that with time the components have drifted a bit and warmed up the tone.

funny how time and drifting always warms the tones rather than leaving you with something tin-sounding and dulled down.

umm...not so much.
I think it goes both ways.

bw

i was being sarcastic...

as for the amp that she was using, it was an old fender twin tube amp

Quote from: darron on January 23, 2007, 05:13:25 AM

Quote from: wampcat1 on January 22, 2007, 12:11:55 PM

Quote from: darron on January 22, 2007, 09:37:43 AM

Quote from: wampcat1 on January 22, 2007, 08:47:43 AM
Honestly, when I hear someone talk about old 808's that sound good, I don't think it is *because* it is an 808...I just think that with time the components have drifted a bit and warmed up the tone.

funny how time and drifting always warms the tones rather than leaving you with something tin-sounding and dulled down.

umm...not so much.
I think it goes both ways.

bw

i was being sarcastic...

yep, I was joking back, hence the smiley

Hi

I have to say that I agree with the people above who have said that the amp makes a lot of difference. I built a standard no mods  GGG TS and tested with my Marshall TSL 100 & 4 X 12 cab. I had intended to mod it but the sound at rehearsals was so good I decided to leave it as it was. Recently I have been using it a jam night where they have small tranny amps. With the drive maxed out I could not get enough dirt out of the thing. I now plan to mod it to add a 3DPDT switch will allow me to lower the 4K7 feedback resistor and increase the 51p capacitor. The third pole will be used to control a bi-colour mode LED.

Axeman.

I've mentioned this before...if you are moding a commersiall TS, that last output buffer sits AFTER the switching and is ALLWAYS on..might not make a big differance, but please be aware

johan