Hey all,

I am building another FF clone with instructions from gen guitar gadgets and parts from small bear.  I had built one previously with not up to par transistors, so I am building another.

I bought enough parts for two of them.

I am curious how and where I could enter the circuit into my crybaby to make a fuzz-wah, or if this is even possible, or a good idea.  I am very new to all of this, quite confident in my abilities to build simpler circuits like a fuzz, but I am basically painting by numbers and cannot read schematics and build using them alone, I am only able to do this with the parts layout and wiring diagrams on JD's site.

Anyone care to share a link or some advice for a beginner, on this fuzz-wah modding thing I want to try?

Also, I was looking at musiciansfriend.com and saw a roger mayer wah mod/upgrade for a dunlop crybaby, the model I own, for about a hundred bucks, I am assuming it increases the range of the wah or something? Or hotter??  Anyone know what it will do?  Is there a way to juice up my wah without buying this thing?  Such as a circuit rebuild or a new circuit to build? Or, possibly the schematic or other resource on dunlop cry-baby mods?

Thanks much to all, I really appreciate all the help and information I have gotten from reading other posts, this board is great.  

Thanks again, Matt.

Wha goes before or after the FF.
 For the FF to drive the wah, you'll need a buffer ckt. I don't know bout the newer Dunlops [whether buffered].
 For the wah there's that inductor, and the gain, and the transistors, and the caps all of which can be modded [from what I understand] to become superwah'...lol
 I did some mods to my 847 VOX, the gain boost worked great but the vocal mod depende I und on have a 500mh inductor, which I don't have laying around and makes [I think there's room there] a big difference.
 Input cap is fine for me for now...I should get that Clyde type inductor and diddle with it again...maybe some BCxxx [I forget] replacement transistors... [549?]

Hi Mark.

I use a fuzz face and a wah quite a bit.

Firstly Wah mods...
R.G Keen's article on Wah's is excellent. As you susspected $100 is a rip off, infact all your mods will be changing one or two resistors or a capacitor - and they are really cheap.

Secondly building the curcuit in the pedal...
a. I cannot strenously enough recommend doing a to a true by pass mod.

b. The reason to have the fuzz face in the wah is so you can turn both on at once with a single click of a footswitch - only problem, could be that switching the wah on and off whilst keeping the fuzz on won't be possible, so I guess that's why you are building 2? - (i have them in seperate boxes and I have an effects loop box that can turn all my effects on or off at one time)

c. You'll need to decide wether you want the fuzz face before or after the wah - the standard is after the wah - although i do have a ts9 before

d. So... my recomendation would be take the output wire from the wah curcuit and connect it to a dpdt switch that will turn on or off the fuzz curcuit and then connect the output from that switch to the Wah on off switch... (does that make sense  :roll:  I can draw pictures if you want)

e. If you up graded to a 3pdt witch you can add a led to let you know if the fuzz is on. - ohh and I can tell you how to put a led on your wha so you know if it is on too!

Hope this helps

Chris

First of all I want to say thanks for the prompt replies.  It helps out my confidence knowing that there are people willing to help me out.  Thanks!

I thought I had a handle on even the basics of this stuff, but after reading the replys,  I still feel lost.  I couldn't tell you what a buffer curcuit or true bypass is, or locate an output wire if my life depended on it lol.   :oops:

After reading the posts though, I have discovered I have a problem with what I originally thought I wanted.

I would in fact like to have control over each effect, wah and fuzz, independently.  Thanks for pointing that out.

After reading your replies, and some other posts tonight after I wrote this post, I have discovered that what I am after is probably going to involve modding my wah so the two aren't "phasing each other out"?

So, going along with what petermoore said, and what Chris S described in "d.", how do I go about doing all this.  And, I'm trying not to be too presumptuous in asking, but I would probably need info on what resistor and cap values and where exactly they go.  It may or may not be a chore to explain this to me, so I don't "expect" the help, just letting you know my experience level is...near nil.

a.  True bypass mod? lol uh... I feel sorta slow right now...

b.  I bought enough parts for two only because I had some extra cash at the time and I figured if I messed something up I would have some spare parts to correct my mistakes with.  I have two pre printed boards from gggadgets and two sets of components from small bear.

c.  I guess I don't want to mess with tradition  :wink:  I just want some cool sounding effects    .  When you say "...after the wah" are you refering to first as coming from the guitar and ending at the amp? So, guitar then wah then fuzz then amp, would be fuzz after wah?


d.  Is this answer considering that I would have two circuits in one "box"...the wah pedal?  I am thinking, after reading your post that I would probably like to stick with the individual pedal idea that you recommended because of the switching issue.  

Right now, I have a fuzz face clone I built as per the instructions on gen guitar gadgets.  However, I used some inferior transistors, it was all they had at the store I went to, which is probably no surprise to you being that the transistors are harder to come by than going up to a local retailer (not radio shack btw  :wink:  ).  And, as well, it sounds like crap.  Not that bad, but to even get a remotely fuzzy sound I have to plug my guitar into the fuzz, then into the crybaby, then into my 70's legend 50w rock-n-roll (50w tube pre-3 ax7's- and a solid state power amp section), and turn the gain and color knobs all the way up.  I also miswired or cold soldered a joint somewhere because the volume knob works well, but the "fuzz" knob does nothing, and the stereo input jack only connects through with the 1/4" cable from my guitar plugged in about half way.  It sounds ok enough to get a taste of the sound, I have still been using it, but my ears aren't virgin, and I can definitely tell that the overall sound and quality, or effect, is pretty much awful.

I guess I am asking how to make it so that when I do get this fuzz circuit/pedal together correctly (with the better parts I ordered) can I use my wah without it phasing out or whatever its called?  And, how to mod the wah to sort of make it like a "superwah" lol... with more dimension.  If you can't tell by my name,  I am into grand funk, and while I know that this pedal won't give me some of the sounds I will ultimately be seeking as my experience increases, I still enjoy that fuzz-wah sound.  

How do I go about doing all this?  

I suppose I should open up my wah and take a look first. lol

I have to admit also, that I don't know where any output wires are, couldn't identify one if I had to.

An led would be cool too  

I am sure pictures would help me... in fact, I couldn't do the majority of this stuff without them.  That is, if you weren't being sarcastic  :wink: , and it's ok by me if you were, honestly.

One more thing, I read on here that I could replace the 1k pot with a 500k to get more fuzz?  Remedial question I am sure, but that's the limitation of my knowledge.

First, I'd like to say thanks.  Second, sorry this post is so long and I have so many questions.  I hope someone is either very gracious again, or is extremely bored and doesn't mind reading all my ignorant babbling. lol

Thanks again,  I really appreciate it,  Matt.

MarkDonMel, I like your handle. How many whippersnappers get it, I wonder?

Anyway, my advice to you is to take smaller steps on the way to your dream device. Get your Fuzz Face working the way you want it. Get your wah working the way you want it. Hook them up to each other.

After that, you can work on putting the circuits in the same enclosure or whatever.

I have a set of component changes that I did to my wah that made it much better. If you search the forum, you'll find lots of information on wah mods. One of the things I did was replace the inductor with the red Fasel that Dunlop sells. Big difference. There are several aftermarket inductors available for Cry Babies.

morley will give you a 500mH wah inductor to replace in your morley bad horsey.

Erik,

Thanks man.  That's good advice.

I should take it easy, I think I am probably getting a bit ahead of myself, but I still crave the knowledge, you know?

Some of us whippersnappers know of that band  :wink:     ... I'm 31, so I guess I still am, depending on who I'm talkin' to.

I discovered their american band song in a movie I was watching years ago.  Bought one of their "best of" CD's and was blown away by some of the other songs which were surprisingly different than what I assume was most played on the radio then...and now.  I really dig their song paranoid, really gnarly fuzz with that wah and the panning left and right, great stuff.  I now have almost all of their LP's and all of their albums on CD.  By far one of my favorite bands.

Glad you noticed the name, and knew what it was about.

Thanks again,  Matt.

Right on.  Thanks Ansil.  Would be cool if I owned one of those, even better if I knew what that was... :oops:  lol

Thanks,  Matt.

thats the choke that is a major key in the wah sound.

just email morley with what i put in th epost and they will send you one.

just tell them

"""my local repair man said i needed a new inductor for my bad horsie.  which one do i use it is a 500mH..  would it be best to get it from you.??"""

Hi Mark,

Sorry if you've been swamped by too much jargon - I still don't understand half the answers I get to my posts. But they do let me know what I have to start learning about.

In short my advice is build a fuzz face curcuit first (celebrate greatly when you eventually get it working and prepare to make mistakes and learn lots along the way - I started this when I was 30, I'm now 31  :wink: ) When you're happy with that then think about wether you want a fuzz and wah in the one pedal - instead of the two.

Also I'll have to check but off the top of my head a 500k pot won't give you more fuzz. I think the most fuzz occurs at 0k and the least at 1k, so if you changed it to a 500k pot the area of the dial that has the fuzz you'll be intersted in will be in the last 0.2% of your fuzz dial turn - does that make sense?

Then maybe try doing some mods on the cry baby - if you can take photo's of the curcuit board of you're crybaby and the lay out is close to mine (I have a hendrix and 95 crybaby) you could email me the pics and I could walk you through any mods you might be interested in doing.

The easy wah mod's are
- volume boost.
- Q resistor this effects how much you're guitar sounds like a mouth going "wah wah" - that's my best explanation anyway
- Frequency capacitor - controls the frequency (tone) that the pedal wah's around - you can make this higher or lower

A more difficult mod is the true by pass mod...

To explain: Basically think of your guitar curcuit like a river of sound. when it comes to your wah curcuit their is a fork in the river the sound can either go into the wah side of the fork or down the "clean" side of the fork. Now their is a big hump resistance at the start of the wah side so most of the water (signal) goes down the clean passed the wah. What your switch does is put a dam in the clean side pushing all the water down the wah side. When you let that go (turn it off) you are back to most of the water going down the clean side but you will lose a little in the to wah side - this will be some of the treble in your guitar sound.

To hear this play some guitar without any pedals - listen to the nice clean trebely parts of your guitar playing, then whilst remembering that plug in your wah (whilst turned off) and play. You should be able to hear a loss of some of the high trebely part of your sound. What a true by pass does it basically puts a dam infront of the wah side as well so that no signal gets lost...  :?  hope this helps I tend to talk in analogies

Good luck and remember - there are no such things as stupid questions only stupid people :wink:

Hey, Grand Funk!  Welcome to the forum!
Don't you want the Messenger guitar with built-in distortion and the West amplifier instead of a Fuzz Face?  (just kidding!)

Another GFR fan...

Mark,

Go here  http://geofex.com/   In the upper left hand corner there is a link to "Technology of the ...".   Click on that link - there is a Tech of the Fuzz Face and of Wah Pedals.  These are GREAT articles and break the circuits down to the skeleton level.  This should give you a better understanding of the circuits.

AL

Thanks again all.

Ansil,

Will that work with my dunlop crybaby?  I am guessing I'll tell them I have a morely?  And, get the part free?

Thanks for the tip.

Chris,

Thanks for the help and your willingness to walk me through this stuff is greatly, and I do mean greatly, appreciated.  I just bought a scanner, so I will have no problem taking some pictures and scannig them, it may take me a couple days though.

Your analogy is perfect,  I understand, and often use them myself to explain things.  I will definitely take you up on that help.  Like I said I will send some pics maybe this weekend or sooner and at your leisure of course, we can go through it.  Can't thank you enough for the offer, very cool of you.  At this point, all of those wah mods you are talking about sound like benefits, although I am not totally sure, except for the bypass, what each will do to the sound exactly, but they sound like advantageous modifications.

David,

Thanks man,  I am glad to be here.  I was e-mailing JD and Steve when I would order parts, and while I know those guys are really cool and willing to help, I understand they don't have the spare time to walk me through things and run a business as well.  The parts and info they make avilable for all are more than enough help to begin with.  I am also very happy this board even exists.  Its a great resource.

Thanks.

Al,

Thanks for the link.  I am going to check that site out this evening when I get home from work.  On a lunch break right now.  Can't wait to read it though.

Thanks.

I was reading some posts last night under the search word "fuzz" and found one where JD, I think it was JD, recommended changing resistors in the fuzz face circuit to trim ...somethings...pots? to adjust the bias or resistance or something?  Good idea?  How difficult are they to install into a preprinted circuit board, like the boards I ordered from JD's site?  Would installing them require much change as far as soldering them into the board, and/or their size compared to the resistors...will they fit?  Will then need to be connected to more than two places on the board like resistors?  And, one more thing, since I don't know what kind of trim pots to get, will a skilled salesperson at say MARVAC, an electronics store where I live, or like radio shack, know which trim pots I'll need in the circuit by me showing them the resistor values that I am supposed to use in those spots on the circuit?

As always all of your help and willingness to share your knowledge is appreciated.  Couldn't haven gotten as far as I am without it.  For that, thanks again.

Matt.

yeppers..  you could also telll them you was just wondering if it would help you sound more like the bad horsey and they would probally send you one..  they are super nice people to deal with.   thats why i gutted my morley and put it in a regular wah shell

What about Craig :?:

Regards

RDV

BTW, hahaha...  was funny david.  :lol:

Chris? did I miss something? lol

Matt.

Can't beat em IMO.
 Can get the little ones that you solder onto the board.
 Look at the Rocket and many other schematics for examples of this.
 I pot a 10k and a  4k7 resistor on Q2 collector in place of the collector resistor...or just a 20k-47k [er 50k] pot...this lets you adjust bias quickly for different transistors require it.  You can dial it right to around 4.5v or whatever your ears say sound best !

Hey there Mark not sure what you are refering to with the

QuoteChris? did I miss something? lol

comment. My email has started filtering out this post as spam for the last 4 or 5 posts.

Are you feeling overloaded with info? Are you working on the fuzz face yet? Have you opened up your wah yet?

Chris

Hey Chris, I see how it is.. I'm lowly spam now, whatever man... lol

Im kidding.  

Someone asked "What about Craig?"  And, I accidentally wrote "Chris?" instead of Craig... just a mistake, I was reading your post just before that, so I must've been distracted, sorry about the confusion.

I just built my FF last night, it sounds bitchen.  I am so happy with it, I have been playing with it all morning, but my fingers started hurting and peeling lol, so I stopped and came on here.

I couldn't find your e-mail address, so I went to the website link in your profile and sent some web cam pictures of my wah to your band's e-mail address.  They aren't the best quality, so I don't think you can follow the circuit because of the low detail, but you can at least see kind of how the parts are laid out.  If you need better pics, or want me to give the resistor and cap values I will read them for you.  

I have also been reading about replacing the inductor with either a fulltone clyde wah inductor, or a dunlop fasel re-issue inductor from small bear.  I have another post about that on here, but I haven't read the replies on there yet, so you or others may have given me the answers to that already.  But, I don't know the difference between the two inductors.  I put my fuzz first, from my guitar, then to my wah, and it sounds pretty good, I mean I can get a decent wah, and lots of fuzz.  So, I am content at least for the time being.

Thanks again, Matt.

A dual wah ckt. both using the same dual 100k pot, a splitter blend and 1 wah case.
 I got a V847 [modded, original conductor] and a spare ckt board and inductor.
 Anyone who';s upgraded a way inductor probly has a spare one hanging around.
 Heres the prelim idea
 Ya split the signal, run it through two ckts [using old inductors, each tuned to a narrower but different freq range] using the same dual 100k pot, and combine their outputs using the splitter blend.
  Or keep the outputs separate and have one wah go up and the other go down...Or you could___ __ ___ _   ___ __ _ ______ _ ______
  You would need a heavy duty dual 100k that would fit, or keep spares around that have a gear drive retro fit, using plug/tabs for easy replacement.