"Middle Child Distortion" COMING SOON!!!

[vigilante397]

I've been on this forum a little over a year, and interestingly enough I have been building for the exact same amount of time. In that time I have built an uncomfortably large number of pedals, all of which have been exact clones or slightly modified clones of pedals that someone brilliant designed.

But a few months ago I decided it was time to break out the breadboard and create something original. I'm still mostly working with the building blocks of the brilliant people before me, but I'm doing what I can to put my own spin on it. Currently it's a Klon input buffer (tried the Cornish and wasn't as impressed with it) going into an Electra distortion (I know, kind of reinventing the wheel) with asymmetrical germanium clipping diodes (I have a bunch that I have no idea what they are but they sound AMAZING asymmetrical in an Electra) ending with a passive 3-band EQ (I like full control of the sound).

But the one thing that might make it a little special (which is also the one part I haven't perfected yet) is a charge pump to run the whole thing at ~18V. Why am I doing this? The thought process went as follows: "I should really design my own pedal. But what should I build? Distortion would be a pretty easy thing to start with. But there are already a million distortions in the world. There are already a million overdrives too, but the Klon is my favorite. I need to create a pedal that is for distortion what the Klon is for overdrive." So there you have it. Klon buffer, germanium clipping diodes, and a charge pump. But trust me, it sounds nothing like a Klon

It's not done yet, but when I have it to the point I feel comfortable I will post the schematic and PCB layout (if I ever finish it ) in an effort to "give back," since I haven't really been much help around here aside from telling everyone how amazing their builds look

[bluebunny]

Sounds very interesting, Nathan.  Thanks for putting in the effort.  Can't wait to see the end result!

(if I ever finish it )

Just don't take 26 pages like Rob does...   

[vigilante397]

Just don't take 26 pages like Rob does...   

Hopefully I won't I have the schematic all finished and tested in LiveSPICE, now I need to get it where I want it on the breadboard and get the tone just right. I've started on the PCB layout, and I've done layouts for each of the individual pieces, it will just be a matter of piecing them together after I finish tweaking on the breadboard.

And in Rob's defense his pedals are well worth a 26 page wait

[bluebunny]

And in Rob's defense his pedals are well worth a 26 page wait

True.  <sigh>                   

[deadastronaut]

 

[vigilante397]

Seriously though Rob, I've been creepily stalking you and your builds ever since I joined the forum.

[italianguy63]

Seriously though Rob, I've been creepily stalking you and your builds ever since I joined the forum.

Don't worry about it Nathan--  Rob creepily stalks all of us from space without us knowing it.... and he's a Brit.  a-la  Judas Priest "Electric Eye"

MC

[steveyraff]

Seems we are quite similar. I've been here about a year or so and I've built a few dozen pedals. But I'm still learning. I think I've only built half a dozen or so completely different pedals as I made multiples of each - each time tweaking and modding. For one in particular, the G2 clone I made, I did a lot of mods, then used my fully modded version as an EAGLE learning exercise and created my own re-worked layout of the circuit.

I'm also at the stage where I too, have just started to think of ideas to create my own design from scratch. Well, similarly, I'll probably start with a few borrowed ideas - I still feel extremely novice regardless of how much time I've spent with this new found hobby throughout the year and still have plenty of basics to learn.

I'll be following your build of this closely and I'll be taking notes!  Good luck!  

[vigilante397]

I FINALLY HAVE SOME PROGRESS!!!!!!

Sorry this has taken so long everyone (I like to pretend there are hundreds of people waiting for this announcement). It's ironic how pursuing a degree in electrical engineering leaves me with little time to actually do any engineering

I decided I didn't have any homework tonight, so I was going to finish up a couple SMD boards I had been working on since my resistor pack finally arrived, but my boards were nowhere to be found So I pulled the breadboard back out and finished the last half of this circuit. I had it all planned out, but I decided that I didn't like the tone stack I had chosen, so I tried out a few more and the one that really made the sound pop was the modded BMP tonestack with body control from Beavis Audio.

So it's all finished and has been tested out with my fake Les Paul through a rather decent speaker emulator, and tomorrow I will take it to work and try it on every single amp and with every single type of pickup (single coil, humbucker, active, bass, maybe even acoustic) I have access to in order to make sure it would work well for anyone, not just someone with my identical rig. After that I might play with diode options, as I just got a new batch of NOS germaniums from Romania that came highly recommended from some other builders, and if I feel really crazy I may even play with transistor options on the distortion stage.

And now, without further delay, I present the completed schematic of the Middle Child Note: the schematic doesn't include the charge pump section, as it was done up in LiveSpice and there isn't a charge pump symbol, so I just marked it as a 17.5V supply.



I had a PCB layout all done for it, but it was with the old tone stack so it needs to be updated and re-checked.

[Ice-9]

Nice one Nathan, it's a great feeling to progress from building other projects to starting the design/mod route. This is where the all the fun begins, I look forward to a sound byte.

[bloxstompboxes]

Interesting clipping/gain design structure. Also, interesting is the choice of placement of the tone and volume control. Any reason you went volume and then tone control?

I too have a distortion I am working on but things keep getting in the way. There is never enough time.

OH! And you must post a sound clip!!!!

[duck_arse]

nathan, I am a "last child", and as such, get the run of the place, apparently. are you missing a cap to ground from the bottom of the tone pot, and are you expecting different amp inputs to load the tone control differently (no buffer/make up gain)?

[vigilante397]

I plan to get a sound clip posted this evening after work

As for the placement of things, I played with the clipping in a couple different ways and the asymmetrical setup I have it running now is the way I found the most aggressive yet still pleasant distortion that can still be backed down to something that could be called an overdrive. And I know germanium isn't the go-to for clipping diodes on a distortion, but I've turned into somewhat of a germanium junkie

As for the tone stack placement (after the volume control) I felt like this would give me what I wanted for control. Several people recommended putting a boost after a passive tone stack to make up for signal loss, but I wanted the tone stack absolutely last in the chain because I want it to be the very last thing to "color" the sound before it goes to the amp (or next pedal in the chain).

Like I said I plan on experimenting with diodes later, as I just have some 1N34A's on there right now, and I just got some Russian D9E's that are supposed to be very sweet sounding. I also have some germanium diodes that an eBay seller threw in as a free gift whose name I do not know, but that I have gotten very satisfying distortion out of in the past.

[vigilante397]

nathan, I am a "last child", and as such, get the run of the place, apparently. are you missing a cap to ground from the bottom of the tone pot, and are you expecting different amp inputs to load the tone control differently (no buffer/make up gain)?

Wow, I would not have noticed that if you hadn't said it! there is indeed a 10nF cap between lug 1 of the tone pot and ground on the breadboard but I forgot it on the schematic, and it looks like it also is missing on my PCB layout.

With the different amps I'm not so much expecting them to load it differently, and I have been considering an output buffer, but where I'm remarkably happy with the sound so far I mostly just want to see how flexible the tone is and see if I can get a consistently great sounding distortion out of any amp. I have tried a couple pedals in the past that sound amazing through one amp but have trouble getting a killer sound out of another.

[vigilante397]

LACKLUSTER UPDATE:

So I brought the thing with me to work today and plugged it into one of my favorite amps we carry, the Vox AC15, and grabbed an Epi Les Paul Custom, one of my favorite guitars we carry as well. Fired the thing up and noticed a few things:

1) Way bigger volume drop than I noticed at 1:00 in the morning.
2) With the gain cranked the sound gets to that awkward place in between distortion and fuzz that just doesn't sound good no matter what you do with it.

But with the volume cranked all the way and the gain at about 3 o'clock it still actually sounded pretty good. Then I plugged it into my other favorite amp we carry, the Orange OR15. I noticed the following:

1) It sounds like crap.
2) If the tone knob is turned up it sounds like crap.
3) If the tone knob is turned down it sounds like crap.
4) If the gain is turned up it sounds like crap.
5) If the gain is turned down it sounds like crap.
6) The only way to get a good sound out of it was .... to unplug the pedal and go straight into the amp. This sounded great.

What did I learn from this experience?

1) An emulated headphone output from an amp does not give an accurate sampling of tone.
2) Working on a pedal at 1:00 AM is probably not a great idea, as it can lead to "it sounds good enough, I'll finish it really quick then go to bed."
3) Present something to another pair of ears before deciding it's finished.

Back to the breadboard .......... 

[Derringer]

I like the concept of your design.

I have some suggestions that may help.

get rid of C3, R7 and R8. You don't need them.
Change R2 to 220K
Change R1 to 2.2M
Change R3 to 10K
Change P2, the 10K gain pot to 2K. Wire it so that lug 3 goes to the emitter, lug 1 to ground and run a 10uF capacitor from lug 2 to ground (+ end of the cap on the lug, - end to ground)
If you don't have a 2K pot, just run a 4.7K resistor parallel to the 10K pot you have and still wire the 10uF cap from lug 2 to ground. Try a bigger cap for more boost or a smaller cap for less. 10uf may give max boost.

Place a 10K resistor between C2 and the diode junction
Flip the order of your tone control and the volume pot.
Run a 0.01uf Cap to ground from the junction of r9 and the tone pot

[vigilante397]

I like the concept of your design.

I have some suggestions that may help.

get rid of C3, R7 and R8. You don't need them.
Change R2 to 220K
Change R1 to 2.2M
Change R3 to 10K
Change P2, the 10K gain pot to 2K. Wire it so that lug 3 goes to the emitter, lug 1 to ground and run a 10uF capacitor from lug 2 to ground (+ end of the cap on the lug, - end to ground)
If you don't have a 2K pot, just run a 4.7K resistor parallel to the 10K pot you have and still wire the 10uF cap from lug 2 to ground. Try a bigger cap for more boost or a smaller cap for less. 10uf may give max boost.

Place a 10K resistor between C2 and the diode junction
Flip the order of your tone control and the volume pot.
Run a 0.01uf Cap to ground from the junction of r9 and the tone pot

Wow. I just. Wow. Thank you, I will definitely be trying all of these out. I would grab the breadboard and do it right now, but the missus made me promise I wouldn't work on any pedals on Valentine's day

.....So I'll probably have an update around midnight, which is technically February 15th 

[canman]

For what it's worth...I've heard that some Orange amps don't like pedals...I would say it's more likely your circuit sounds fine, since not a whole lot agrees with Oranges!

[vigilante397]

For what it's worth...I've heard that some Orange amps don't like pedals...I would say it's more likely your circuit sounds fine, since not a whole lot agrees with Oranges!

That is true to an extent, as I did get it sounding decent through the Vox, but I still think I could get it sounding better.

I just thought about it some more and that's actually very true, Orange amps in general don't like pedals. The store I work at is an Orange dealer, and I'm trying to think of a single amp we carry that legitimately takes pedals well, and there isn't a single one.

Thanks for making me feel a bit better

I like the concept of your design.

Also a really big fan of this compliment, simple though it may seem 

[deadastronaut]

page 1 and no soundclip..

or will it be at page 26?..like my stuff..