Author Topic: loop truth table help!  (Read 4141 times)

blackieNYC

loop truth table help!
« on: April 15, 2015, 07:50:11 PM »
MOMENTARY OR LATCHING TRUE BYPASS LOOPER AND MOMENTARY STUTTER/MUTE SWITCH
image deleted - SEE BELOW, ENTRY #5

I want the output to be selectable to achieve each of these functions
A. a momentary insert of a send/return loop, and when the momentary stomp is at rest - the input.
B. a bypass of the input to the output - which condition A provides when the stomp is at rest.
C. the loop return to the output, when the momentary is at rest.
D. a stutter of the input when the momentary is stomped, and muted when at rest.
E. a stutter of the loop return when stomped, muted when at rest.

This was harder than I thought.  Tell me if I've got this right, or what I've messed up or overlooked. I've gone over it myself, but I'm leaving the truth table blank - see if conditions A thru E are met by the switch configurations 1 thru 8. The usual conditions apply - the send should not be connected to the input if the loop is not (momentarily or staticky) engaged.  The output should either see the input, the return, or ground (that's the stutter-mode mute state only). When sending the input to the output, true bypass, the input should not be loaded by the send output.
I have no self restraint with regards to features. The TB looper needed to have a momentary footswitch, then two toggles. Stutter or insert this, or that.  It got out of hand.  I could use a pari of eyes here. This might be pretty neat if I can do it.  I've decided I do not need a 2nd latching stompswitch to use was a true bypass looper.  a toggle will be fine.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 10:03:59 PM by blackieNYC »
http://29hourmusicpeople.bandcamp.com/
Tapflo filter, Gator, Magnus Modulus +,Meathead, 4049er,Great Destroyer,Scrambler+, para EQ, Azabache, two-loop mix/blend, Slow Gear, Phase Royal, Escobedo PWM, Uglyface, Jawari,Corruptor,Tri-Vibe,Battery Warmers

DocHeavy

Re: loop truth table help!
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2015, 11:16:46 PM »
Unless there is more to this circuit than what is in the posted image, condition A is not achieved in any of the switch combinations. Additionally, when SW2 is up, SW3 doesn't do anything (unless SW3 is break before make).

blackieNYC

Re: loop truth table help!
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2015, 11:39:19 PM »
Sw2 decides the at-rest, un-stepped-on state of the momentary switch.  The output "at rest" will be one of the two audio source (via sw1) or silence.  Sw3 is a two-throw switch.
I think you may be right.  Looks like #5 and #6 will give me the loop when the mom. is pressed, and the loop when the mom. is off. Right, I see what you mean.  Look for an edit of the image.  One moment please.....
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 11:46:41 PM by blackieNYC »
http://29hourmusicpeople.bandcamp.com/
Tapflo filter, Gator, Magnus Modulus +,Meathead, 4049er,Great Destroyer,Scrambler+, para EQ, Azabache, two-loop mix/blend, Slow Gear, Phase Royal, Escobedo PWM, Uglyface, Jawari,Corruptor,Tri-Vibe,Battery Warmers

DocHeavy

Re: loop truth table help!
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2015, 12:39:54 AM »
How long of a delay do you plan to use? If you disconnect the send while listening to the direct signal, there may not be any signal inside the delay to switch to.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 12:44:24 AM by DocHeavy »

blackieNYC

Re: loop truth table help! 2nd try:
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2015, 10:42:16 PM »
OK, I might have it now.  
MOMENTARY OR LATCHING TRUE BYPASS LOOPER AND MOMENTARY STUTTER/MUTE SWITCH

Once again, the conditions:
I want the output to be selectable to achieve each of these functions
A. a momentary insert of a send/return loop, and when the momentary stomp is at rest - the input.
B. a bypass of the input to the output - which condition A provides when the stomp is at rest.
C. the loop return to the output, when the momentary is at rest.
D. a stutter of the input when the momentary is stomped, and muted when at rest.
E. a stutter of the loop return when stomped, muted when at rest.


SW1 is a 3PDT latching stompswitch, SW2 is a DPDT toggle, SW3 is a DPDT momentary stompswitch.
In the truth table,  the switch "up" - with the upper two contacts engaged, is represented by a "0".  The bottom two contacts of the switch is represented by a "1".  
When the momentary is pressed it is a 1, when it is at rest it is a zero. So, the column in the table under "3" represents the momentary switch being pressed (1) or at rest(0) and those two states are further determined by columns "1" and "2".
First example, when the switches are all up, the output signal is the input.  Doc gets it.

One tricky part is - if I have the loop return routed to the output, do I in fact have the input connected to the send? If not, there would be no signal.
Another tricky part is - if the output signal is the input, is it True Bypass OR is the input being loaded by a connection to the send?

The output conditions are listed 1-8.  I'll leave them blank so folks can look at this and Help Me Please.
Remember, Sw3 is the momentary stomp: 1 is pressed, 0 is at-rest.
I believe that output conditions 1 and 2 are: Out = In when the mom. sw is at rest, and Out = Loop Return when the mom. sw is pressed down. This would meet functional condition A.  right? And condition B - true bypass
I think output conditions 3 and 4 are Out =Mute when at rest, and Out =Loop return when pressed.  This meets condition E.  right?
I think conditions 5 and 6 are Out = Loop Return when at rest, and Out = Input when pressed - but the Input is loaded by being connected to the Send and the Output.  right?    so 5 meets functional condition C.  6 is undesired, but - This is OK*
Conditions 7 and 8 are Output = Mute when at rest, and Out = Input when the mom. is pressed.   This meets D.  yes?

As for condition 6 of the truth table, the input is loaded but - this isn't a useful configuration of the device -(oh yes it is! See below) the loop is in when at rest, and you press the pedal and it goes away.  I'm more interested in getting the conventional opposite - at rest it is in bypass, press the switch down for a loop insert.  This I get with output conditions 1 and 2.
Sw2 would be a toggle - Insert mode or Stutter ("Berst" mode.  Don't go there).   Sw 1 is essentially my bypass switch, and Sw 3 is the momentary stomp.
I know it seems confusing.  I couldn't come up with a simpler drawing.  Please do the truth table for yourself and see what you get.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 08:57:32 PM by blackieNYC »
http://29hourmusicpeople.bandcamp.com/
Tapflo filter, Gator, Magnus Modulus +,Meathead, 4049er,Great Destroyer,Scrambler+, para EQ, Azabache, two-loop mix/blend, Slow Gear, Phase Royal, Escobedo PWM, Uglyface, Jawari,Corruptor,Tri-Vibe,Battery Warmers

DocHeavy

Re: loop truth table help!
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2015, 04:10:34 AM »
I think you have it this time. One concern about condition 3 of your truth table: The output is muted and you shouldn't hear anything, but your send is floating. There's no telling what kind of noise will be picked up by the delay you have plugged in to your loop - just like when you unplug your cable from your guitar without muting you amp. Depending on your delay time and number of repeats, you could have quite a surprise waiting for you when you go to condition 4.

blackieNYC

Fixed -switching and truth table
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2015, 07:32:29 AM »
By Jove!  3&4 should be acceptable, I figure I'm tapping a stutter switch with the fx loop engaged - it'll be kooky noise time.  Surprises may be welcome. We'll see how clicky things get.  My plan B is to do this with CMOS switches if I need to.  Thanks for the keen eye, sir.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 09:21:06 PM by blackieNYC »
http://29hourmusicpeople.bandcamp.com/
Tapflo filter, Gator, Magnus Modulus +,Meathead, 4049er,Great Destroyer,Scrambler+, para EQ, Azabache, two-loop mix/blend, Slow Gear, Phase Royal, Escobedo PWM, Uglyface, Jawari,Corruptor,Tri-Vibe,Battery Warmers

blackieNYC

Re: loop truth table help!
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2015, 09:15:12 PM »
My mode 5&6, has the very "flaw" that got me started on this build. A momentary switch between the loop and the input which happens to still be connected (loaded, or split to two destinations)to the loop send.  If I have a longish delay, maybe I can do something like this, just with a foot instead (a little less speed):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo7ZkRjXM3k



http://hackaday.com/2015/01/31/rocking-a-new-sound-for-guitar/#more-145402

Any body seen this yet?

In the video, he actually has three modes to switch between - the dry, the delay, and a mute in the middle.  And his is faster than mine could ever get.  Maybe the drummer should deal with this pedal, to make it seem like the guitarist has a sense of rhythm.

Hope you don't mind the public disclosure, Whiskey.
That video is frikkin awesome.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 09:25:50 PM by blackieNYC »
http://29hourmusicpeople.bandcamp.com/
Tapflo filter, Gator, Magnus Modulus +,Meathead, 4049er,Great Destroyer,Scrambler+, para EQ, Azabache, two-loop mix/blend, Slow Gear, Phase Royal, Escobedo PWM, Uglyface, Jawari,Corruptor,Tri-Vibe,Battery Warmers

WhiskeyMadeMeDoIt

Re: loop truth table help!
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2015, 10:58:50 PM »
No problem with posting it. This is not me in the video. Credit goes to the man who invented it Jeremey Bell http://jeremyseanbell.com/scrubboard/rocker.html
i found it on hack-a-day and shared it with the forum so maybe could build on the idea.
Glad you are finding inspiration.
I am not sure how much speed you can get from a foot controlled pedal version of this idea.
It may be more than enough for some new sounds.