Author Topic: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?  (Read 12576 times)

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #140 on: February 13, 2019, 03:18:09 AM »
one verified schematic for the resurrected 1969 ovation 6000 series preamp fuzztone coming atcha's jus' bout 'soon as i can scan's, it hoss, oh hell's yes.
and the mofo REQUIRES

LOW GAIN GERMANIUM!!!!!
or else it sounds like poo! one knob! ya can mount the vero to the knob.. or will be able to, once i re-jig the vero.

schematic coming... don't put that popcorn away yet!!
lol
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #141 on: February 13, 2019, 03:39:42 AM »
ok me fuzzy friends n droogies, here ya go, a shot o' the ol' molokko straight from 1969ish

have at it and have fun. low gain ge is the way to GO! 30, 40 hfe will work. above 100ish it starts to sound shitty and badly biased, i'm betting it was designed for germanium transistors, and they just switched to si when they "improved" it. a lot of engineers were either high on lsd or thought screw it, they want some distortion, lets give them some and make it extra @#$%ing shitty. i tried an ass load of transistors in the circuit, gains ranging from 20 to 560 in both npn and pnp. keep it under 100.
ge sounded best. much to my surprise, q2 has gotta be PNP! so its a pnp/npn dealio. or should be.
i bet they made a mistake when it went into production and they really figured screw it, it sounds horrible, the kids will love it. there's two bc109s stuffed in the factory board, but i bet they @#$%ed up and stuffed a pair of npns at some point, not knowing the difference maybe, cuz the fuzz was never spectacular on any of the units i played.
any pnp in q2 makes it instantly sound better. interestingly, a reverse biased bc549 in q2 actually sounds good and has fair volume! BUT the volume doesn't operate smoothly.. its all or nothing. just like on the original unit. so they definitely @#$%ed it up at some point and either never cared, or never noticed.... whichis a shame, cuz the whole package, when done right, would have been completely @#$%in mind blowing.
i DID add 100n caps to the original fuzz board. i AM gonna swap out the shitty bc109's <and save 'em for something they'll sound GOOD in> and put in the ge combo mentioned as i have a few of each kicking around.  that will bring the old preamp into the 21st century and make it actually useable.
i ordered parts for the footswitching, too, so when thats done, its gonna have footswitchable reverb, trem, and fuzz.  it'll even have led's, cuz i got 2 extra wires i can use to power them separate from the audio function of the other 4 wires already being used out of the 6 pins of the din plug.

that was a mouthful. yikes.

anyways, here ya go... DIY OR DIE, YE SCURVY MONGRELS!! GIVE ME AND MUNKY AND ROB SOME CREDIT WHEN YA RIP THIS OFF LMAO

I  present to you, The Fuzz Ovation




breadboard it NOW
antd
bee leef me lator

but i think its a keeper. rock on!
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #142 on: February 13, 2019, 04:00:51 AM »
updated vero, you can mount the 50-100k pot right to the board if you like the way its layed out. yeah, shoulda centered it, but... its 4 am, i'm a friend of bob's, and if you wanna send me 29.95 in unmarked 2 dollar bills, i'll tell ya all about why you should cut me some slack. ;)

have fun, make loud scary noises!




and with that, GOOD NITE, IRENE, WHEREVER YOU ARE
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #143 on: February 13, 2019, 04:07:35 AM »
duh!!!

ROB.... them two mystery resistors my dumb@#$% ass didn't notice under the two big caps are both 1.5k. ;)

 :icon_redface:

hahaha  :icon_mrgreen:
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

Rob Strand

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #144 on: February 13, 2019, 04:14:57 PM »
Quote
reverb first
Ah, that messed with my head then I realized the problem.   You updated the edge-connector numbers on the PCB side so the circuit makes sense when the connected to the outside world.   However, the parts on the PCB *have* to go to the edge connector numbers shown on the schematic because that is how the PCB is wired .  Changing the numbers only is like re-wiring the PCB.   The only thing we are allowed to change is the ordering left/right or right/left numbering on the PCB.    However, the numbering on the V2 reverb schematic matches your wiring list.     So that's the problem I've been struggling with try to match-up the external wiring so the circuit makes sense.  Ahhh.

Quote
ok, just did. the mixer was labeled backwards too. here's a fix, that seems to match all my notes.

here's the mixer
OK.  This makes sense.  You actually update the numbers on the (old) V1.0 schematic.  The last dump of V2.0 schematics pretty much gathers up all those new numbers and matches what you have done.    When I look at the solder bridge on the pics it looks like it goes to a ground track.  There's a couple other of things you updated I'll transfer across.

Quote
ROB.... them two mystery resistors my dumb@#$% ass didn't notice under the two big caps are both 1.5k.
OK cool.  What about the third resistor?

« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 04:25:10 PM by Rob Strand »
The internet:  answers without the need for understanding.

Rob Strand

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #145 on: February 13, 2019, 04:19:15 PM »
Quote
I  present to you, The Fuzz Ovation

Cool, interesting it needs a germanium.
The internet:  answers without the need for understanding.

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #146 on: February 13, 2019, 05:20:43 PM »
the third resistor, under the caps on the right side of the component face of the board is 100k.

yeah, germanium. its a great sounding fuzz with germanium, and the npn/pnp combo.  with the two bc109's it sounded just as shitty as the original.

in the preamp headpiece, ya can kinda get away with it cuz its parallel, its adding fuzz along with the clean signal. but its a really wretched sound.

with the ge and bigger caps, it sounds a lot better. even better, into the ovation preamp and fuzzing it with the onboard fuzz, which makes me suspect a 4 knob variant may be really hip!

glad we sorted out the wiring deets etc.. now hopefully it will make sense.

look forward to your thoughts!

i am waiting for fedex to arrive so i can wire up the footswitch stuff, then i think i can close her up and finally get her off my bench and do some work.

the vero will just fit a 1590a if you're slick. i will try and get video over the next couple days, hopefully the last time i took this pos comp apart, i fixed the echoechoechoechec... problem
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #147 on: February 14, 2019, 01:16:33 AM »
started wiring up the footswitch tonite and messing with a few things. i auditioned a couple transistors in the amp, including by mistake swapping the pnp and npn positions, which surprisingly still worked. crazy.
ended up with the q1 from the pedal version, and q2, after trying a bunch of si and ge and gains, went with a trusty old 3906, which works great in there. now its gotta bit of boost.. q1 ge npn about 65hfe, q2 si pnp about 389hfe. seems to work well.

in the standalone version, shoot for like, 60hfe.

anyways, with the 3906 and ge in there, it gotta bit of a boost, and the tremolo is no longer so weak.. and it fades in almost like a kustom kinda "vibe/tremolo" feeling as the notes decay. pretty hip.

black wire to the footswitch is common, short the blue green or fuzz to ground and off they go.
gotta look at the connections of them top boosts. see how they connect to the circuit.
channel one has some balls now, and if ya run into the #2 input on it with your guitar, and use a jumper to #2 channel input #2, you can use channel one to overdrive channel two, and then use channel two to drive the fuzz... in parallel. the combo of the parallel fuzz and two channels is real similar to an early marshall sound, which makes me wonder if the transistors maybe are fets in the preamps? they don't seem too harsh when clipped hard.
can get some just absolutely sick sounds out of it. i wanna do a demo, but there's so much ya can do with it.

and the standalone fuzz version into it really sounds good.  i think i may make another one with two cascaded and see what happens.  or maybe just an extra gain stage.  who knows. i shoulda been in bed like, days ago it seems like. chronic insomnia sucks. lol.

but gives ya a lot of time to mess with stuff, tinker with things, and let the magick smoke out.

peaaaaaaaaaaaace
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

Rob Strand

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #148 on: February 14, 2019, 06:48:12 PM »
Schematic release V2.1

OK. This is about as far as I can go based on the comments you made and what I can see on the boards.
The schematics as good as I can make them from the board perspective.
How the wiring meets up with the boards follows your comments and the "big wiring lists".













-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary
Updates schematics V2.0 to V2.1
15 Feb 2019
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) Channel 1 - Sheet 1

updated rev to 2.1 only to match other sheets
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) Channel 2 - Sheet 2

2.1) Fixed pin numbers for Fuzz connections
Reversed numbering error.

2.2) Note:  R22 on channel 2 is 47k (see pics)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
3) Fuzz - Sheet 3

3.1)

Reply #129 on: February 11, 2019, 12:39:36 PM

Noticed two value discrepancies on the fuzz board on two resistors,
have updated the vero accordingly.

input resistor is 3.3k,
e-ground resistor q2 shows 15k, tho that seems high to me!

Should be
33k, and
1k5 or 15k?

3.2) Wiring List Error  [*** Wiring not schematic]

4 to 8  has off by 1 bug
Should be,
4   NC
move 4 thru 7 to 5 thru 8

3.3) Updates fuzz input & output connection text
Ch2 #7 to Fuzz #2 (blue)
Ch2 #17 to Fuzz #11 (yellow)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
4) Reverb - Sheet 4

4.1) Checked edge connector numbers against circuit components.

4.2) Check edge connector numbers against wiring list
(Reply #126 on: February 10, 2019, 10:49:29 PM)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
5) Trem - Sheet 5

5.1) Missing Resistors
   Near opto's   2x 1.5k
   LFO output   1x 100k

gray/black/brown/silver, but i can check again in the morning.

5.2) R5 (800R)
Reply #131 on: February 12, 2019, 03:15:38 AM
gray/black/brown/silver, but i can check again in the morning.

5.3) Trem Switches
Reply #131 on: February 12, 2019, 03:15:38 AM

green wire from trem switches goes to center/common on both chan 1 and 2 switch.
the other end goes to trem speed #3, not intensity.
intensity only uses two pins of the pot, 
intensity pin 1, black,  goes to socket #18,
and socket #13, brown, goes to intensity #2.

green wire, to pin 2 of channel 1 trem switch,
and jumpered across to pin 5 of channel 2 trem switch.
white wire, to pin 3 of channel one trem switch, to trem socket #4  [Rob: Actually #9 from wiring]
white wire to pin 4 of channel 2 trem switch, to trem socket #5.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
7) Mixer - Sheet 7

7.1) Resistor Values

Reply #131 on: February 12, 2019, 03:15:38 AM

r5 red/red/orange when blown up and messed with a little
   =22k

r9 brown/black/orange
   =10k

[Rob: Based on one pic I can seed the last band is actually red.
 In the unmodifier form the circuit is the same as the reverb which uses 1.5k]

7.2) Connections
Marked-up *V1.0* drawing 2/3/19
V2.0 matches except for Mixer #4 to Reverb #3.
However wiring list shows Miixer #3 to Reverb #10.
[#3 is reversed numbered #10, #10 is correct]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The internet:  answers without the need for understanding.

Rob Strand

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #149 on: February 14, 2019, 06:49:36 PM »
Quote
but gives ya a lot of time to mess with stuff, tinker with things, and let the magick smoke out.

The older the smoke the harder it is to put back in  ;D
The internet:  answers without the need for understanding.

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #150 on: February 14, 2019, 07:13:12 PM »
holy cow. dude, you are amazing!!
i am on my way out the door for my thursday gig, but a couple things...

the reverb shield is weird. i will look at it AGAIN, but i know the outcome.

the send/tip/hot of the reverb tank connects to reverb socket #10, it is a normal shielded wire center conductor, not bl or black as on the new schematic.

the shield of the same wire connects to pin #11... remember, this is all numbered as ya look at it left to right, in this case left to right is with the components facing you rather than the trace side cuzza the way they made the unit. very weird.

the fuzz e to ground resistor is 1.5k, 15 is way too high.
i tried 3.3k and 33k on the input of the fuzz, made almost no difference whatsoever.

shit. i gotta look at this when i get home... check in later, 2 am-ish ;)

herculean task, there, bud!!
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #151 on: February 14, 2019, 07:17:26 PM »
ya know what? belay all that til i can look again. i think we're getting some pins confused. the footswitch wire for the reverb shorts to ground... blue wire you have going to the input of the tank, but thats actually not pin 3, which is blue.  when ya short the reverb to ground, it kills the output of the reverb, or you'd hear the splash of verb continue when ya hit the footswitch.

i DID get that far last nite, i wired up the 6 pin din, was waiting for another dpdt to show up today and finish it.

all the footswitchable effects are normally open. when ya shunt them to ground, it turns them off. reverb,  fuzz, and trem.

we're close. just gotta sort out a couple details, but i see a few thing under cursory exam that will need to be addressed... stay tuned!
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

Rob Strand

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #152 on: February 14, 2019, 08:47:26 PM »
Quote
herculean task, there, bud!!
I think we have both been working overtime on this one.
It's a bit quirky and messes with you head.


Quote
ya know what? belay all that til i can look again. i think we're getting some pins confused. the footswitch wire for the reverb shorts to ground... blue wire you have going to the input of the tank, but thats actually not pin 3, which is blue.  when ya short the reverb to ground, it kills the output of the reverb, or you'd hear the splash of verb continue when ya hit the footswitch.

OK there' might be a problem there.    The details of how the footswitch works is a mystery to me.   When I looked at the schematic, there is a Blue wire on reverb pin #3 and a Blue wiire on reverb pin #10.
The reverb pin #10 connection goes to the mixer and that does make 100% sense to me.   The reverb pin #3 is the weird one.  I assumed that went to the footswitch and somehow pulled the rug from under it by killing the power to the reverb.   The biasing on Q3 (R12, R13) looks ODD and I assumed this was to stop it banging when the power was cycled.
The internet:  answers without the need for understanding.

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #153 on: February 15, 2019, 06:48:21 PM »
Quote
herculean task, there, bud!!
I think we have both been working overtime on this one.
It's a bit quirky and messes with you head.


Quote
ya know what? belay all that til i can look again. i think we're getting some pins confused. the footswitch wire for the reverb shorts to ground... blue wire you have going to the input of the tank, but thats actually not pin 3, which is blue.  when ya short the reverb to ground, it kills the output of the reverb, or you'd hear the splash of verb continue when ya hit the footswitch.

OK there' might be a problem there.    The details of how the footswitch works is a mystery to me.   When I looked at the schematic, there is a Blue wire on reverb pin #3 and a Blue wiire on reverb pin #10.
The reverb pin #10 connection goes to the mixer and that does make 100% sense to me.   The reverb pin #3 is the weird one.  I assumed that went to the footswitch and somehow pulled the rug from under it by killing the power to the reverb.   The biasing on Q3 (R12, R13) looks ODD and I assumed this was to stop it banging when the power was cycled.

yeah, no, there is NO blue wire to pin 10, never was. that's a mistaken holdover from when i first wrote stuff down and numbered the sockets opposite from how you did.

socket #10 becomes socket #3, see? socket 10 however has the hot from the reverb tank input going to it. and the shield to #11. i suspect at some poiint in my notes before i figured out what i was doing i confused reverb input and output wires.

it would appear that the input of the reverb drive amp would be from the preamp or mixer, but the output of the reverb tank can't possibly work as the schematic is showing now on the updated version



r 11 looks too low, but its connecting to the shield going back to the reverb tank, "floating" it above ground. near the reverb return/reverb output jack on the tank itself, the tank is grounded to the chassis for the ground connection there.

tank in TIP is to # 10.  the shield is to #11. that is for the reverb drive amp. i suspect you've got whats labeled #10, 9 and 11 mixed up. to me, it looks like what you have as pin #9 on the last schematic is actually pin 11. as shown, in the most recent schematic, pin 11 would be the +, with the 680r resistor being last in line before the tank input.

so... by the most recent schematic, as shown,

pin 10 is actually pin 3, blue wire going to the reverb footswitch

pin 9 is actually pin 11, reverb tank send shield

pin 11 is actually pin 10, the reverb tank send tip/hot

at least those three connections are messed up
pin 12 is the black wire that goes back to the mixer ground. its at the mixer the reverb is either shorted out of the system or alive by the reverb switches themselves... the reverb on/off switches i would suspect feed the reverb input which comes off the reverb level pot.
the reverb footswitch simply shorts the mess to ground <blue wire, socket #3, not #10. #10 and 11 have shieled wire to them for the reverb send amp, hot pin 10, shield pin 11, no connection to pin 12, and the reverb return amp hot/tip is pin 6, with the shield connected to socket pin 1.

again, all this agrees with all the notes, so i think things just got confused there.
more in a bit. gotta digest things slowly.

i just checked over the schem again, and compared it to the notes. the above is accurate.

what i wrote, i mean.

pin 9, 10, and 11 as shown on the schematic are wrong.

pin 9 on schematic is shown as ... man this shit is confusing.  lol....

bear with me, working up the graphic

ok... i just compared notes and double checked everything. this is how the reverb hooks up. the input of the reverb tank as well as the REVERB CIRCUIT itself jumpers from mix pin#4, blue wire!

the reverb circuit itself is shunted to ground with the footswitch via reverb socket #3

B+ enters thru socket #9, orange wire coming from the terminal block on the power supply side, side a.

the reverb drive amp shield looks funny hanging off the 680r resistor, but again, thats to "float" it i think, the ultimate ground connection is made off the reverb tank itself to the chassis ground.




check it over. this should now be correct. i will go thru the other boards, one at a time, to match up the schematics and the notes til we got the whole mess.

in some cases, shit gets even SCREWIER cuz there's multiple connections to things which aren't always shown with all the boards separate, but actually connect all the shit. we're used to series signal chains dealing with this, but this is all parallel. so... its gonna be super @#$%in weird bro!!

anyways.. check this, tell me if ya think it looks good, if so, the reverb is done, as is the fuzz i guess. little closer to nirvana!!! ;)
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

Rob Strand

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #154 on: February 15, 2019, 08:19:40 PM »


Quote
pin 9 on schematic is shown as ... man this shit is confusing.  lol....

bear with me, working up the graphic

I didn't get any of that!  I read all the words but I don't know what they mean  :icon_mrgreen:.

Quote
so... by the most recent schematic, as shown,

pin 10 is actually pin 3, blue wire going to the reverb footswitch

pin 9 is actually pin 11, reverb tank send shield

pin 11 is actually pin 10, the reverb tank send tip/hot

...
pin 9, 10, and 11 as shown on the schematic are wrong.
I'm not sure what is wrong.  For example,

Quote
pin 9 is actually pin 11, reverb tank send shield
Do you mean change where it says 9 on the schematic to an 11?

That's the *only* thing I can't do.  On the PCB (and the schematic)  pin 11 is connects to R8 and pin 9 connects to R4, R6, R13, and Q2's emitter.    You can see the tracks on the board and I've check it quite a number of times.



What can be changed is the color of the wires on pin 9 and the external connection.    So pin 9 is currently Orange and connects to Terminal Block A pin 5.     

Quote
bear with me, working up the graphic
So when I put the updates next to the V2.1 schematic it's pretty much the same connections to me.
However, if the circled numbers means I have to change only the Reverb pin numbers then we are screwed because those numbers have to go to the parts shown on the schematic.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 08:21:13 PM by Rob Strand »
The internet:  answers without the need for understanding.

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #155 on: February 15, 2019, 08:50:36 PM »
all the circled numbers on the schematic have been traced, beeped, verified and corrected for which pins they actually go to. its possible i have the pnp's connections backwards, as i'm not sure if the emitter is actually the reverb drive or the ground.  that part i had to guess. if it makes sense switching ONLY those two connections, thats hip, cuz one of the two terminates in the chassis ground off the tank itself, carried there in the shield of the cable.

i went over the trem socket wiring repeatedly, realized i made a couple mistakes earlier... see?
it IS me!! ;)

gonna post the graphic ,
but trem speed pot

#1 and 2 go to trem socket #1, yellow wire
#3 goes to trem socket #16, green wire

trem intensity i had afu

#1 goes to socket #18, black wire
#2 goes to socket #13, brown wire
#3 goes to trem switch common.
so i think the connection you're unsure of, is probably def not right.

the trem switches, going counter clockwise 1-6
green common  goes to trem sw 2 #5, and trem switch 1 #2, AND
goes to green wire to TB1, A1 as well.
trem switch 2 # 4, to trem sock #9
trem switch 1 #3 to trem sock #5

i did what i could for corrections on this one
check it and let me know. the connections all agree with the unit and my notes now



listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #156 on: February 15, 2019, 09:01:51 PM »
hey rob,
dumbish question, but... if i disabled r 1 and 2 on the mixer, would that mean it when

duh. dumb question i didn't think thru ;)

do ya think there's a way to kill the reverb from the footswitch, but change it from the output of the verb to the input?
maybe switch the footswitch from killing the output of the verb, to shorting the input to ground instead? or is that gonna be POP!! causing issues with noise and stuff?

just curious. its 2019, be nice to let the verb "splash " when ya kill it. ;)

listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #157 on: February 16, 2019, 01:42:41 AM »
i had to ditch the 3906. playing with it today, it just plain sounded lousy. yeah, it was a little louder, but really just too farty and gross. so i replaced that mofo with the ac125 i first tried in the pedal...
yeah...

thats the ticket. woo hoo!

not real loud, but instantly sweet, like just-browning fender kinda tones.
no brainer. ge was most definitely what they were supposed to use, i'd say.
probably switched to si cuz it was NEW and IMPROVED and DID THE SAME THING BETTER!

egad. yeah, right.

ok. also finished the footswitch. i smoked one of 'em. haven't done that in years!
i tapped the power off the orange wire connection in the power supply, right off one of the 100uF cans itself. was reading 16v, i figured that would work! i didn't wanna take it later where it splits off to the preamps, i was concerned with led polution of the audio.

good thing i was. cuz man, it was NOT QUIET. it worked, but it needed some creative thinking.

so basically, its wired almost backwards from a stompbox. you HAVE to keep the AUDIO and LED grounds SEPARATE.

what i did was ground all the audio to the case with the black wire from the cable i got , and run all the "grounds" for the led's to the shield. the black wires in the amp also connect like that, and not to the shield, which makes me suspect that they "telescoped" the ground to the footswitches for this unit... hots and a cold, but shield connected at one end only.
anyways, that way, the noise from the led's gets nuked and no hash creeping into the audio.. and no more loud BRUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ when the fuzz is turned on.
had to add pulldowns, went with 4.7m to case ground cuz they were convenient.
between separating the grounds and the big freekin resistors, most of the noise and pops are gone. when ya kick in the fuzz, it just sounds like ya went from a nice solid state to a nice brown tube instead of hideous noise and farty fuzztone. its hip.
dpdt's needed. each side is different, easier to look at the diagram i made than to explain it.

works great. with the ge in the fuzz, cranked full, ya can kick it on and its a very sweet overdrive now, the reverb works well, tho i'd rather kill the inputs than the outputs, and the trem is actually hip and kinda vibey... when the fuzz is on, it kinda fades in on stuff, with the fuzz off its just nice and shimmery, but not super deep. the reverb is hip! and if ya use the patching i reccomend into the inputs, it sounds like you're running a fender reverb into a tube amp input. its cool as hell.

i am babbling. been working all freekin day lol...
anyways,. here's pics

messy inside, recycled amp footswitch, had to drill some holes and mess with wiring some to get it working right, so a bit ugly, but functional. i just tied the three resistors together and soldered the white wire i added to the center pin of the plug for powering the whole mess.







here's a Q&D footswitch schematic




i'm beginning to realize we're gonna have to get the power supply right, too, unless ya wanna just say screw it and let peeps use whatever they want. for posterity sake, and any poor loser who dare tread here trying to fix one, it would be kind of us to do i guess. pretty lazy tho.

gotta went. i need me some freekin breakfast! lol been a longggggggg day
listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness

Rob Strand

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #158 on: February 16, 2019, 04:31:29 PM »
For the Reverb:
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all the circled numbers on the schematic have been traced, beeped, verified and corrected for which pins they actually go to. its possible i have the pnp's connections backwards, as i'm not sure if the emitter is actually the reverb drive or the ground.  that part i had to guess. if it makes sense switching ONLY those two connections, thats hip, cuz one of the two terminates in the chassis ground off the tank itself, carried there in the shield of the cable.
Hmmm, so really, that leaves up with the reverb connections unresolved/whacky.   Have you confirmed the reverb tank is internally grounded?  It's not a normal thing to do and even less normal for the drive side to be grounded even more so the tip - totally bizarre!   The PNP pin-out looks fine from the transistor data, the PCB and the way it is wired in the circuit.

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just curious. its 2019, be nice to let the verb "splash " when ya kill it.
Cutting the tank input line might do that since there is DC through the input coil (from what I can see).
Normally you wouldn't want that though.

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do ya think there's a way to kill the reverb from the footswitch, but change it from the output of the verb to the input?
maybe switch the footswitch from killing the output of the verb, to shorting the input to ground instead? or is that gonna be POP!! causing issues with noise and stuff?
There's many ways to do it.   Some methods may invoke the evil hum spirit, either due to the length of the wiring or where the grounding point are made (or due to restriction in the way the footswitch works).  I'm still not 100% sure on the foot switch and power supply.  I haven't had a chance to draw it up.  Also I wasn't sure if the terminal blocks wired one side to the other, or wired above to below  - need to look at it again.

For the Tremolo:

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gonna post the graphic ,
but trem speed pot

trem intensity i had afu

The new intensity connection makes 100% sense now.   That's how I drew it before but it didn't agree with the wiring so we changed it.

Apart from the now fix green wire connection that I had the writing against, the speed pot wiring was actually correct before.  You actually flipped the speed pot and the numbers to make it the same as before.  However when you changed the numbers is now causes a disagreement between the edge connection numbers and the parts on the PCB - we can't move those.   So the correction is
- remove that dubious green wire from the trem switch to the speed pot
- wire the trem switch to the intensity pot
- leave the speed pot wires and number as they were in the V2.1 schematic.

I'll add the labels to the Trem "outputs" to the channels.   They got left off somewhere along the way.

PSU:
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i'm beginning to realize we're gonna have to get the power supply right, too, unless ya wanna just say screw it and let peeps use whatever they want. for posterity sake, and any poor loser who dare tread here trying to fix one, it would be kind of us to do i guess. pretty lazy tho.
Yes, if you want to play with footswitch I think we need to get all that down on paper.  You wiring notes cover most of it.

I need to read over your new PSU pic.

Early on you mentioned the mixer was at 22V and the reverb and fuzz were at 9V.   Is that still true?   IIRC, there are four power rails.  They had 1k resistors and there circuit didn't look like it pulled enough current to drop 22V to 9V across 1k's.


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i had to ditch the 3906. playing with it today, it just plain sounded lousy. yeah, it was a little louder, but really just too farty and gross. so i replaced that mofo with the ac125 i first tried in the pedal...
yeah...
You have to do what you have to do.  ;D

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ok. also finished the footswitch. i smoked one of 'em. haven't done that in years!
Too many 3:00am's

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messy inside, recycled amp footswitch, had to drill some holes and mess with wiring some to get it working right, so a bit ugly, but functional. i just tied the three resistors together and soldered the white wire i added to the center pin of the plug for powering the whole mess.
Things with missing footswitches are always a pain.  They get very little air-play in the docs to work it out.

And a purple mojo led ...


« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 06:03:31 PM by Rob Strand »
The internet:  answers without the need for understanding.

pinkjimiphoton

Re: ovation fuzz from the late 60's/// help me resurrect it?
« Reply #159 on: February 16, 2019, 06:43:59 PM »
i had to check that pic,it wasn't loading, so i downloaded it, re-upping here.



listen loud. blaze one first:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzMJxNNgY3_yc0JNd0VqdmNIWEk

I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. @#$% TRUMP! YOU ARE EITHER ANTI FASCIST, OR YOU ARE ONE. #BLM

#FuzzyGoodness