Colorsound Tonebender Rebuild--

[brian wenz]

Hello Hullo---
    As I mentioned in  another thread, I've had a reissue Colorsound Tonebender [three knob, thin case] laying around for a few years [couldn't use it 'cuz it sounded......errmmmmm.....LIKE CRAP...].  I decided to replace the circuit with  the original-style  3-tranny germanium circuit.  
Along the way I tried using 2 silicon PNP trannys for Q1 and Q2 and it sounds GREAT.  Much tighter "crunch" and less flabby in the low end.
As the circuit stands now it's got 2  2N3906's  [Q1 and Q2] and a Valvo OC 75 [fairly high gain] for Q3.  I had to bias Q3  differently  [the 18K that's in the schematics that I've got had to come WAY down.  I also took the 220K between the tone and volume controls out.   After a few other tweaks it was enshrined in it's rightful home inside the Colorsound case.
This circuit [when properly biased for the transistors used] is a lot quieter then the MK II circuit  [THAT gets a bunch of points from me!] and has a little less overall fuzz with better definition.   Also, it's tone is different enough to warrant  having both pedals.
Anybody else have any experience with these??
Brian.

[cajununicorn]

brian, no experience with that pedal, but i did built a colorsound overdriver clone last week. it uses three bc109c transistors (early silicon fuzz face replacements).
i can't say enough about it...it sounds great! i've already used it at three gigs and get tons of compliments on my lead tone. this is in austin, mind you. folks are very particular about guitars here...
i'd be very interested in hearing other colorsound pedals.  thanks, jon

[Jim Jones]

Hi Brian,

Interesting you should post this - I was just about to start a Colorsound TB thread.  

I built the 3-knob a couple weeks ago and I also find it to be quieter than the MKII - agreed, a good thing!  It's also nice having a tone control.

After reading Stuart Casteldine's page I experimented with Si's in the Q1 and Q2 spots - but I went back to the Ge's.  By the way, I used all low gain 2SB173's for my trannies.

For me the circuit is way too gainy (like every fuzz seems to be)   - so taking a page from Prescription Electronics, I upped the gain pot - didn't have a 250K around so I'm using 500K.

Also, fuzzes get a bit too kazoo-y for me so I socketed the input cap and have been experimenting with smaller values.

So far I think this is my favourite of the Colorsound fuzzes.  I'll do some more playing around with it before I commit to boxing it up nice and neatly though.

Jim

[brian wenz]

Hello Cajununicorn--
  I'm located in Austin, too!   Send me an email or something.......
Brian.

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello Jim-
   Yeah, by all means start another Tonebender thread!!  Can't get enough info on those buggers!   I think I'm gonna like this Three Knob circuit [at least this slightly modded version...].  I had the Colorsound  Reissue for YEARS along with the Yardbox and neither version came close to what they should have been, so it's nice to once again have my faith restored in the original circuit.  Did you keep all the original values for biasing Q3??
Brian.

[petemoore]

Did you put a volume pot on your Colorsound Overdriver Clone?
 Took me a while but I think I got it right on the small [for the ckt] piece of perf...The output level of this is very much!!!
 Will probly be better when I find some Q's that closer match the designated ones, I put two 5088's and a 5089 in there to see if it works...had some troubles and had to do a 'few' fixes, at least I'm getting to where I can usually find the problem after a little bit of digging. I don't know how I got to be better at debugging than wiring right but Se' la' Vie...Anyway all three knobs seem to be working now....interesting how the tone section is' in there.
  Did you change any of the cap values?
 Q3's collector is running at 8v+ [out of 11.86v battery]....seems a little high?...don't know whether that's a 'good'... ....don't know what kind of biasing numbers were intended to be there for the ckt to sound 'right'.

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello petemoore--
   I used BC 184L  in my Colorsound Overdrive and I'm pretty sure Q3's collector is around the 5v - 6v range.  [I also put a master-volume at the output of the circuit........a MUST for this pedal!]   This is one of the best overdriver-type pedals   EVER!
Brian.

[aron]

brian, no experience with that pedal, but i did built a colorsound overdriver clone last week. it uses three bc109c transistors (early silicon fuzz face replacements).
i can't say enough about it...it sounds great! i've already used it at three gigs and get tons of compliments on my lead tone. this is in austin, mind you. folks are very particular about guitars here...
i'd be very interested in hearing other colorsound pedals.  thanks, jon

Did you put a master volume on the end?

[cajununicorn]

aron,    
yeah, i used the layout from greenfuzz and it has a master volume added to the circuit. i used it again last night and i'm digging it.   jon

[Jim Jones]

Hi Brian,

You know I haven't played with the bias on Q3...I'm not even sure what voltage I have on the collector there.  Should if be like the FF  and MKII and in the neighbourhood of 1/2 supply V?

Jim

[petemoore]

From the looks of it [as amp Q3 of C.O.D.] the closer you get to around half, the more room the Q has to swing Pos then Neg...I went to troubles to get bout zackli 1k8, but now I think I'll mess with that value
 Q2 looked like a FF Q2 so of course you know what I did with it's collector resistor...now I am vari-able to get 1/2 supply there...

[brian wenz]

Hullo Hullo---
   When setting Q3 biase on ANY circuit I sit there an play through the device with the amp I'm gonna use and  set it so I like it!   I always seem to settle on  between 4v and 6v.   On a couple of the germanium pedals I have a pot instead of a set resistor so it can be tweaked to compensate for any temp. or other  funny stuff....
Brian.

[Jim Jones]

Hi Brian,

I'll make some voltage measurements tonight and do some friggin' around.  I may have just lucked into a sweet spot because it does sound quite good.  Out of curiosity, when you play with a fuzz do you mainly use single coils?

Jim

P.S.  I've been monkeying around with my Ge diode clipper circuit - tried a paralleled 5532 for the opamp last night.  I haven't had a chance to play it loud yet but it seems to have tightened up the sound a bit.  It's much quieter than the 741 for sure.  

[petemoore]

Humbuckers sound fatter.
 I use a Washburn [strat style 'electrics'] for live lately, but used the HB's in my LP the other day [for decades, a devout Gibson Guy] and I would have to say that HB's are more forgiving...and Just Plain Fuzz Fatter...I don't know, they say there are singles sound 'just like' doubles but I don't remmember trying any.

[Jim Jones]

Hey Pete,

You say "fatter" - I say "bloated".    I just don't like super fuzzy pedals wih humbuckers.  I like cows but I don't like to emulate their moo-ing with my guitar.  

Jim

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello Jim--
 MMOOOOOOOOOOOOO   !!
Naw, I usually use single coils with most of my fuzzes.......although the Axis circuit is great with humbuckers.
I do switch off guitars quite often, so some circuits just have to be used with some guitars  [Gibsons] and others with others [Fenders].
Brian.

[Jim Jones]

Hi Brian,

MMOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!
Naw, I usually use single coils with most of my fuzzes.......

I thought as much!  Thanks for not going bovine.  

I changed my Q3 collector resistor to a 25K trimpot but didn't get to fire the beast back up before my honey got home.  I'll have to try it out tomorrow after work.  With the 18K in there I didn't get any nasty blatty, gated type sounds so maybe it was OK as it was...

Also, you said you replaced the guts of a reissue TB (fantastic looking enclosures on the Colorsound stuff BTW)  Was the reissue circuit the one with the opamp and clipping diodes?  I remember seeing  a "RI" circuit somewhere that was nowhere near the original...

Jim

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello Jim---
  Nope, this one is a 3-tranny [silicon] circuit.  These were reissued around 1990-or-so and I've had it laying around since.  Actually, I'm going to sell the circuit board  for $50.    That op-amp version is over on the Fuzz Central site.
 Now, I think we should take a vote to see if you get kicked off the forum for letting your relationship with your wife get in the way of testing a pedal!!    SHAME!!!!    
    [also.......MMMOOOOOOOOOO...]
Brian.

[Jim Jones]

 Now, I think we should take a vote to see if you get kicked off the forum for letting your relationship with your wife get in the way of testing a pedal!!    SHAME!!!!    
    [also.......MMMOOOOOOOOOO...]
Brian.

Hahaha - I know my place dammit!  We're just in the midst of wedding plans - trust me, there's enough stress in the house right now.  

Jim

[Gearbuilder]

Hi ,
 There's no rules about single-coils or humbuckings ,both sound differents
,but there is happy combinations betters than others;It's the same than weddings!
Bruno