I will NEVER complain about pedal prices again

[csj]

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[smoguzbenjamin]

Hmm I wouldn't mind bodging up 10 pedals for a local dude. To the contrary I'd be honoured :mrgreen: But if you don't want to, that's your decision If you find it hard to build stompboxes, then practice and it will all come to you

[Johan]

its really hard, if not impossible, to beat companies like Boss, Ibaneze or Dod and all the others, and I really dont build much "from scratch"..its much easier to buy something that is in the ballpark to what you want and then tweak it to perfection. that way you allready have the "built like a tank"-chassis complete with switching an batteryhousing. and you probably allready have your own favorite mod to do to a tubescreamer or a Rat...if your friend really want to sell something people cant buy anywhere else, why dont you suggest he buy's ten whatever from whoever and have you do your favorite mods...it cheaper, fairly simple and usualy gives great result with few parts and little effort...

johan

[Ansil]

no one ever thinks it will be hard at all till they do it..  one thing to keep in mind is that organization and the brain work is what will get you great results time and time again.. personally i have found  easier ways of doing things..  most people call it redneck or jerry rigged afro engineering. i say hey go for it..    i can now sand 3 boxes at a time without ever getting up off the couch except to take them out.  

but when i posted here on how to do this. people scoffed saying it wouldnt' work..  i say try it then decide on it.

for those who missed the thread..


5 gallon bucket 2.5 gallons of sand.  make a jig to hold your box.  and attach it to a drill.

DON"T FORGET THE LID>

[puretube]

thanx, csj !!!

[Gringo]

Ansil, you're so crazy, man.

I think i'll search for the thread with the sand and drill...

Edit: Can't find it, can anyone please point me to it?

[aron]

I would say that owning your own business is always going to be hard work.

[Paul Marossy]

Stick to building tube amps. You'll probably make more money, and you have more room inside the chassis for wiring, etc.
Just my opinion.  

[Peter Snowberg]

Excellent post csj!

Running your own business is so much harder than it seems from the "outside" and you covered it very well.

I always roll my eyes when somebody makes a comment about how a project is nothing more than 15 cents worth of plastic. Maybe it is $0.15 if you ignore the $10,000 mold, the $7,000 in bulk resin, the $15,000 to the consultant advising on mold fabrication, the $30,000 to the industrial designer to get the aesthetics right in line with the mechanical requirements, the $10,000 to the artist for the initial sketches and designs, and more for review, testing, paying the account, the utilities, the phone, and it goes on and on and on and on.......

That 15 cent piece of plastic probably cost well in excess of $100,000 to produce one of. Then you have additional costs with warehousing, inventory management, taxes, advertising ($$$$), etc.

The only way to make anything is to sell a zillion units which takes even more resources.  :cry:

What a pain.

If you want to run your own business, you pretty much have to be an idealistic masochist.

Take care,
-Peter

[csj]

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[Bill_F]

It's like anything else, until you've done it yourself you have no clue what is involved. What got me into this hobby was looking into a London Fuzz that I'd bought and thinking "I could do that for A LOT cheaper!" It's true, I have done that and for a lot cheaper. But when you factor in finshing the box etc. it took a LONG time to do. We're talking the simplest of circuits. The last effect I built was the Small Clone. I thought I'd never finish soldering on that bad boy, it took forever.
Bottom line: I do this because I get satisfaction playing through pedals I make. I have also come to realize that the low cost of most of the parts (not including the case and switch) isn't the big factor here. It is the time involved. There would be no way after giving a Music store there cut that I could ever charge enough to make it worth it. Or maybe I'll just start a company and call it "minimum wage pedals" because that's about all I'd be making.
This would be a good thread to point some of the folk at Harmony Central and MusicToyz to. Those who complain (as I once did) about the nerve of those boutique pedal builders who charge so much for something that only has a few dollars in parts when I can get a Boss for...

[Manolo Dudes]

csj, I *do* know what you're talking about  :roll:

[ODwan]

Oh yeah! Stompboxing is so very time-expensive, but also so very addictive!!!!
I am still so very exited everytime I get a circuit to work that I feel like a little child. And I'm building more and more...
I usually think of what pedal to build next before I've got the last one completed. It's getting a serious fix for me and I just realized I spend more time building stompboxes than playing guitar... :?
Time to quit? What do you think? :?:

[RDV]

I feel the same way csj. I decided quite a ways back that there would be little to no profit in selling hand-built effects. I'd love to build tube amps like you do, and I'm considering it, but the initial investment is bothering me a bit(I'm a tightwad). I also had a look at your website and the amps look terrific, and just allow me to say: 'You're a very lucky man' :wink:  :wink: .

Regards

RDV

[WGTP]

I have to agree.  My pedals sound great, but wouldn't last 2 nights on the road.  I'd have to charge big bucks for all the time I spent  on them and others might not like the way I have tweaked them.  I can gingerly take them to a friends to jam and take a spare if it quites, but I don't do it for the money.  It would cost too much.

You find the same thing in Loudspeakers.  You can buy the same world class speakers and crossover components for a couple humdred bucks that are used in $10,000 plus finished units.  But building the gourgous cabinets and assebling and testing it is where the money comes in.

[Doug H]

I've built pedals and amps both as a hobbyist thing. I think packaging up a pedal is a major PITA compared to an amp. I've flipped back & forth between both pursuits and it is always a major relief to go back to doing the amps. One thing that has helped the pedal stuff is I have started doing "medium-fi" packaging designs of the pedal on the computer before I drill the first hole. This "fit checking" saves a lot of time and helps avoid problems later. I am starting to take the same approach with the amps too.

As Ansil mentioned, I think you have to start finding repeatable, consistent "manufacturing processes" which will help you save time. You have to start thinking more in "production" than "design" terms. Building X number of widgets a day that have to be consistent and roadworthy involves a different thought process than boxing up your latest favorite one-off.

If  I was going to try to build pedals for a living, I would seriously consider investing in a good 3D CAD S/W package for doing the packaging design. That is the hardest part of the whole building process, IMO (let alone all the business stuff you have to deal with, competing with Boss, etc etc...).  

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here. Just my 2 cents...

Doug

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

(let alone all the business stuff you have to deal with, competing with Boss, etc etc...).  
Doug

It isn't possible to competee with Boss, but nobody here would want to.  The whole point of DIY & boutique is to give people boxes that Boss couldn't make (because too specialised, to "good", expensive parts, unsuitable for mass production or whatever.
Anyone going head to head with Boss is doomed, quicktime!

[csj]

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[smoguzbenjamin]

You could try to compete with boss But you won't succeed

[ahermida]

Excellent post csj!

If you want to run your own business, you pretty much have to be an idealistic masochist.

Peter:

 I laughed when I read this...here's my little story.  As soon as I moved to Florida I started working on some prototypes in a more or less serious way.  I focused on all the details, good part selection, good soldering, sturdy design, blah blah blah.  

 I took my 3 pedals to a local store some 10 minutes away and after talking to the guy he showed interest in the boxes.  I brought them from the car and got one of the guy's guitar and amp...plugged everything in and started to play.  All my pedals sounded like sh*t.  So I changed the guitar...same sh*t....changed the amp, same sh*t...anyways, after a few times changing to different models the guy just walked away while I tried to figure out what the hell was wrong...they all sounded cool at home!.  I gathered my stuff, apologized to the store owner and left. During the 10 minute ride in the car I was debating if I should just throw the towel and forget pedals etc all together or just drive off a cliff and get it over with ....then I realized that in Florida there are no "cliffs"...its freaking flat.  Oh well, went back home and didn't touch the electronics for about a month or so.  One day while fishing during a lunch break I realized what was wrong with the pedals...went back, tweaked them and they finally started delivering the goods.  My attitude changed and decided to go for it.  I've been working with pedals since the late 70's and trust me it never gets to be easy (at least for me)...there's always something.

To the person that initiated the thread, the only thing I can say is to be patient.  It takes time to develop experience...If you want something now then you'll have to pay someone to do all the design work, prototypes etc for you.

Alf