We can put a man on the Moon, but we can't ...

[WGTP]

I continue to be amazed that after 40 years of guitars and distortion folks are still coming up with relatively simple circuits, using parts that have been around for decades, that sound great and are totally new.  

It makes me think that this whole field of endevor has not been a priotity in the Electronics community???  What's the deal??? I guess they think micro waves and computers are more important???   :roll:

[Mark Hammer]

There are a million ways to make bread, and a million ways to burn toast.  Why be surprised that there are a million ways to degrade the fidelity of an input signal?

[David]

Degrade?!?!?

Mark, I'm surprised at you!   :wink:  :wink:

Distortion enhances  the harmonic content of the signal...
...  thus adding value!   :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

[Brian Marshall]

yes degrade... it doesnt really enhance harmonic content....  for the most part it adds harmonic content... there is a difference.

[ExpAnonColin]

Yes, degrade...  awesome analogy, Mark, I'm going to use that one if you don't mind

-Colin

[WGTP]

I wonder if germanium transistors went to the moon?  I wouldn't want to depend on them, but ...

One man's degradation is another man's enhancement...

I continue to regret not having a Black Fire in 1969 a Vulcan in 1971 or a Sweet 16 in 1973 (not sure when Jfet's became generally available).

A modded Muff Fuzz in 1975 would have been cool or a modded TSF in 1977.  I enjoy doing regret way to much.  

[Peter Snowberg]

I wonder if germanium transistors went to the moon?

I don't know about the rest of the craft, but the Apollo guidance system was all silicon. A friend's father was one of the 5 principle engineers on that project. Here is a picture of the exterior of the prototype. Sitting at the base are a couple of Cray cards. The one on the left is from a 2 and the one on the right is from a 1.  Here is a close up of those. Sorry to go OT, but I'm a Cray nut.

Take care,
-Peter

[nightingale]

thanks peter~
that 1st pic is now my besktop bground..
very cool,

[george]

They could probably put all that on one chip these days ....  :wink:

[Paul Marossy]

Well, I suppose it depeneds on what era you are referring to. In the 50s and 60s, things were designed NOT to distort. If and when they did, it was because they were operating in the upper limits of their range. Too loud, etc. These days they intentionally make things distort...

That's interesting - I didnt know they had IC chips back around Apollo 1 and 2. That whole guideance system could probably fit into a 12"x12"x12" box today, thanks to minuaturization.

[ErikMiller]

I wonder if germanium transistors went to the moon

Sure they did! The radio audio communication system was all germanium. Actually, when it left Earth, it was audiophile quality.

By the time they got to the Moon, the bias was so far off that it took on that squawky gated quality that we associate with Moon-to-Earth transmissions.

I'm completely making this up. :-)

[Brian Marshall]

Well, I suppose it depeneds on what era you are referring to. In the 50s and 60s, things were designed NOT to distort. If and when they did, it was because they were operating in the upper limits of their range. Too loud, etc. These days they intentionally make things distort...

That's interesting - I didnt know they had IC chips back around Apollo 1 and 2. That whole guideance system could probably fit into a 12"x12"x12" box today, thanks to minuaturization.

i would bet it probably fits on a pci card now in a computer.

My dad worked on one of the appollo missions....... i think he was in houston.  I think he was also involved in skylab too.  He's got all these cool pictures and plaques haning on the wall.  I could only wish that my generation could be involved in something so cool.

[smoguzbenjamin]

My dad worked for the ESA untill a while back. He designed operating systems for sattelites. Most of the stuff he designed worked... sortof :roll:

But his ideas on tube amps are really wierd. He simply cannot understand why I want to overdrive a tube :mrgreen:

[Brian Marshall]

my dad's the same way.   He still has his old heath kit stereo too.

[smoguzbenjamin]

We can put a man on the Moon, but we can't convince my dad that overdriven tubes are a good thing :mrgreen:

[Mark Hammer]

When I started out building stuff, the brunt of what you could find in the way of technical literature came from the Hi-Fi crowd.  Obviously the goal there is to have as little *distortion* (as in the sense of changing or misrepresenting) of any type as possible so that the original is reproduced faithfully.

From that perspective, distortion is something that is always looking in your windows, under your front door and garage doors, trying to sneak in whichever way it can.  From the audiophile's perspective, GETTING distortion is easy, but getting rid of it is hard because there are so many ways it can occur.

[WGTP]

I think it is funny that some of the audiophiles are introducing distortion via single ended triode, etc. type primative tube electronics.  Although most don't want to admit that is what they are doing, prefering to couch it in terms of "better soundstage, or more palpable presentations, etc.".

Also, there is lots of music processing software that introduces "tube type" distortion to compensate for the sterile sounds of digital.  I saw something the other day that seemed to think the 6th order harmonic was the key :shock

It seems we have focused so much on removing distortion, that we have failed to appreciate or research the positive effects of it in our psyho-acoustic quest to boogie.