New at runoffgroove.com: Thunderchief

[Eddie]

No sound at 7,5 volts.

Eddie :roll:

[will]

Hi,

Wasn't the Thunderchief a fighter jet from the 50s?

Correct! http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/f-105_thunderchief.pl

I just checked out the thunderchief link above. Did you checkout it's Armament? It is equipt with "One M6-1 20mm Vulcan cannon" maybe that's why it sounds so good! :wink:

Regards,
Will

[petemoore]

B-52's are the loudest, a low end rumble that rivals your Dumble.
 T-33's [AKA Tweetybirds] have a high end that kills.
 I used to listen to these things going off about 50 times a week, frequently at 3 AM, 5 AM etc.
 F-4's, SR-71's...the boys love to fly their toys...

[Joep]

Eddie, did you tried to replace the 3rd fet?

Bye,

Joep

[Ammscray]

Ammscray,

The amp that I used to prototype is an old Randall RG35 SS deal.  It's the least "coloring" amp I have.  All tone knobs were set full up on the clean channel.

To answer the second question, we use cab sims to give a common reference point.  Yes, there is sometimes drastic coloring of the sound with certain amps.  There comes a point where it's hard to tell what is the amp and what is the pedal.  To avoid this, we use cab sims direct to recorder.  It's our attempt to provide an apples to apples comparison.

Thanks for your comments Gary
Yeah the randall is pretty transparent compared to some, but maybe a little tube amp tone would be nice too...

My problem is that alot of the soundclips, especially the distortion and overdrives, sound very similar and I think the differences might be more easily heard with a speaker, like with some tube grind like you would have onstage playing loud...I know time is an issue with everybody though, and direct is quick!

For me, I know what all the vintage boxes sound like because I either have one or have had one, but for the newer designs it would be cool to hear how it's really going to sound in the real world, because I don't have the time to build every one that comes along...

Also, I think alot of younger or beginner builders also aren't hearing exactly what a vintage box really sounds like either, and that may adversely turn them off to something that's really what they want...

One example, is the tyco octavia clips you have there...again no offense intended but those clips don't really sound anything like a tyco, but it couldn't, just because of the way it was recorded...some people may say, "hmmm, that doesn't have enough octave for me", when the tyco's have lots of octave there when set up properly with the right amp...

Anyways, it's all just constructive criticism.

If you're interested, I would be willing to send you some clips of the vintage pedals that I've recorded, pro quality with amps turned up loud, giving an excellent idea how they really sound, and you could post them on your site if you like...
Peace

[MarkB]

Good points, all... but there are other issues there...

I can make the same amp sound completely different depending on mic selection, mic placement, room ambience, mic preamp, mixer, etc...
there are an infinite number of variables that go into recording a guitar/amp combination - which is why no 2 records tend to sound exactly alike.

so, while I understand the desire for hearing a box through an amp, I also see the impracticality of it.    as much as I can make something good sound great, I can also make something great sound like dogcrap.
"-)

[Ammscray]

Good points, all... but there are other issues there...

I can make the same amp sound completely different depending on mic selection, mic placement, room ambience, mic preamp, mixer, etc...
there are an infinite number of variables that go into recording a guitar/amp combination - which is why no 2 records tend to sound exactly alike.

so, while I understand the desire for hearing a box through an amp, I also see the impracticality of it.    as much as I can make something good sound great, I can also make something great sound like dogcrap.
"-)

Right, speaking for yourself of course... one of my backgrounds is engineering, when you've been doing it a very long time, with all those variables that are always present, still either a duck sounds somewhat like a duck, or it doesn't (and you're outta work!)

So that being said, with all the variables of recording a tycobrahe original, or clone on the computer or whatever, either it sounds close to it, or it doesn't...even though your EQ or choice of mic may be different from mine...I personally think that direct recording sounds way too fake and flat compared to miking...not even really in the "ballpark"

I'm saying that it would be nice to have soundclips of different things, that sound as close to real as possible...no, not everybody is an engineer, but what good does a soundclip do if it doesn't even get close??

Hope I was clear

[Arno van der Heijden]

If you're interested, I would be willing to send you some clips of the vintage pedals that I've recorded, pro quality with amps turned up loud, giving an excellent idea how they really sound, and you could post them on your site if you like...

I would definately like to hear that!!!
It gives you at least some reference...

[B Tremblay]

If you're interested, I would be willing to send you some clips of the vintage pedals that I've recorded, pro quality with amps turned up loud, giving an excellent idea how they really sound, and you could post them on your site if you like...

Send me an e-mail (info@runoffgroove.com) and we can discuss this further!

[bwanasonic]

So that being said, with all the variables of recording a tycobrahe original, or clone on the computer or whatever, either it sounds close to it, or it doesn't...even though your EQ or choice of mic may be different from mine...I personally think that direct recording sounds way too fake and flat compared to miking...not even really in the "ballpark"

I'm glad you brought this up, because I can't stand the sound of direct to soundcard clips. In addition to miking an actual amp, it would be nice if clips featured a bit of the raw amp sound for reference. I believe Tone Frenzy uses a mic'ed amp for their clips.

Kerry M

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello--
    There used to be a time when guitar players played through nothing but tube amps ['cuz that's all there WAS].  Jump ahead a few decades and we have people trying to emulate the sound of these tube amps by using computer technology.  All this technology allows people to sit down at a desk and and  "create"   [cut-and-paste]  some "music" that does not involve other musicians  [a lot of it actually gets released as "product".]
I make no apologies to anyone for saying that most of this stuff is crap.
Sometimes I will be in a studio using Pro Tools or whatever and  all I want to do is make everything sound like I'm playing through a cranked Marshall. [ This usually means I'll have to bring in the Marshall myself 'cuz there won't be one in the studio anymore.  ]  Now, this is a lot of trouble, but it's worth it to me to use the real deal instead of sitting there with headphones on trying to get "my sound"  with  a piece of technology that doesn't  move any air!
I have yet to hear  ANY  good, pro quality guitarist  [over the age of 20...]
say that he wants his Marshall / Vox / HiWatt  etc....  amp to sound like a transistor wannabe.   I do, however, see that modern technology dictates
that the wannabe MUST sound like a real tube amp cranked up.
So..yeah, I wanna know what a circuit sounds like when combined with a good tube amp [especially since all the older circuits were designed to be played with tube amps..]
 Sad-but-true........Eric Clapton made his career on being influenced by people like Buddy Guy and NOW Buddy Guy has made his career on being influenced by Eric Clapton!
Brian.

[javacody]

No offense, but some of these posts sound like people complaining about Brian and Gary's recording techniques? Excuse me, but they are providing a great service here. Why all the bitching? You don't have to build their projects, and after the direction this thread has taken, you can bet they think twice about posting another project. These guys come up with a new project, lay it out for you in perf, recommend mods, and give you sound clips. Who else does this? What more can you reasonably ask? I'm sure they will williingly give you a full refund of the money you paid them for this service they are providing to you.

For some perspective, how many pedal manufacters provide you with sound clips of their products through a tube amp?

I want to say to Brian and Gary, you guys are the shiznit! Keep up the good work. I've had hours of enjoyment from not only building, but playing your projects. I'm gonna have to go out and buy some runoffgroove t-shirts for my family members to give you a little of the support you so richly deserve.

[Ammscray]

No offense, but some of these posts sound like people complaining about Brian and Gary's recording techniques? Excuse me, but they are providing a great service here. Why all the bitching? You don't have to build their projects, and after the direction this thread has taken, you can bet they think twice about posting another project. These guys come up with a new project, lay it out for you in perf, recommend mods, and give you sound clips. Who else does this? What more can you reasonably ask? I'm sure they will williingly give you a full refund of the money you paid them for this service they are providing to you.

For some perspective, how many pedal manufacters provide you with sound clips of their products through a tube amp?

I want to say to Brian and Gary, you guys are the shiznit! Keep up the good work. I've had hours of enjoyment from not only building, but playing your projects. I'm gonna have to go out and buy some runoffgroove t-shirts for my family members to give you a little of the support you so richly deserve.

Dude you are so much missing the point, and the bleeding heart **** doesn't get any points...nobody is bitching and nobody is complaining, read the posts carefully, suggestions are being made here simply to make the listening and evaluation of a particular pedal easier and more decisive for some...what's wrong with that??

I have been building pedals and helping people with their projects for 20 years + way before the internet and this forum was even an idea so just listen, it could benefit you...

Without constructive criticism and input from other people nothing would evolve and things would stay the same and be stagnant...

I'm glad this thread has taken this "direction" as you call it, it's about time...there are lots of people here besides beginners you know...we were here first as a matter of fact!...it would be a real benefit for people to hear what a pedal really sounds like before they build it, or shell out big money for an original, or whatever...that's the point...

B Tremblay, you have e-mail... I can provide you with soundclips of the following vintage pedals (and clones if needed) for your site:
Rangemaster Treble Booster
Dallas Arbiter FF
Vox Tone bender
Vox Treble Booster
Various Color/Solasound pedals
Roland jet phaser
Various Boss distortions and overdrives
Various MXR pedals
Various octavias
Various wah pedals
blah blah blah the list goes on...peace

hey thanks to Brian Wenz for making the appearance! Where's everybody else?

[Alex C]

I'm gonna have to go out and buy some runoffgroove t-shirts for my family members to give you a little of the support you so richly deserve.

I had never seen the merchandise section before; those shirts are great!  I'll definitely be getting one soon.  Add my vote to the "you guys rock!" list.  

Alex

[javacody]

Sorry if I missed your point Ammscray. I guess your last post expressed that point a little more succinctly than your previous posts. I think we can all agree that a pedal is generally going to sound better through a tube amp, can we just call that a given?

Also, I never questioned your experience (you made it very clear in every post you made exactly how much experience you have) and constructive criticism is great, but when doling out "constructive criticism", it is usually a good idea to point out what people are doing well, otherwise it can come off pretty negative.

I'm not sure I understand your bleeding heart reference?

One last thing, I'm not sure many of you have taken into account the amount of work these guys have put into not only putting together the projects, but also setting up their site. They also have to pay for storage and bandwidth, which I'm sure comes out of their own pockets. They deserve a lot of kudos for what they do for OUR community, which was my main point.  Sorry you seem to disagree with that Ammscray.

Thanks again Brian and Gary!

[bwanasonic]

No offense, but some of these posts sound like people complaining about Brian and Gary's recording techniques? Excuse me, but they are providing a great service here. Why all the bitching?

Alas, the pitfalls of trying to communicate in this medium. I'm not sure exactly why you perceived bitching, but that was not what I was talking about. The subject had been briefly changed from *how bitchin' the Thunderchief and Runoff Groove is* to *how direct to soundcard clips of certain pedals sound like ass*. The general topic of establishing a frame of reference for clips of pedals then ensued. If no one had ever heard a Rangemaster before, and I posted a clip of Rangemaster-cabsim-soundcard, It would probaly elicit a much different response than a clip featuring mic'd Rangemaster-Marshall Plexi. It's for all practical puposes an entirely different effect. Since Runoff Groove is a major frame of reference for the DIY community, it might be worth discussing the way some of these pedals get heard.

Kerry M

[Ammscray]

Sorry if I missed your point Ammscray. I guess your last post expressed that point a little more succinctly than your previous posts. I think we can all agree that a pedal is generally going to sound better through a tube amp, can we just call that a given?

Also, I never questioned your experience (you made it very clear in every post you made exactly how much experience you have) and constructive criticism is great, but when doling out "constructive criticism", it is usually a good idea to point out what people are doing well, otherwise it can come off pretty negative.

I'm not sure I understand your bleeding heart reference?

One last thing, I'm not sure many of you have taken into account the amount of work these guys have put into not only putting together the projects, but also setting up their site. They also have to pay for storage and bandwidth, which I'm sure comes out of their own pockets. They deserve a lot of kudos for what they do for OUR community, which was my main point.  Sorry you seem to disagree with that Ammscray.

Thanks again Brian and Gary!

I wasn't trying to take away any kudos, I'm very aware of the services these guys are providing and I think they got many great pats on the back for it just in this thread alone...

 but we know that already, I was trying to bring a new point of view to light...at this point I don't want to take any more time to explain why I said what I said, I'd just like to see where this goes now that I've contacted  B Tremblay about the clips...thanks for your reply

[electrictabs]

very nice!!!
everything i tried from you guys is great
thanks
keep up the good work

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello Again--
   Yeah, I just want to make it clear that I am not slagging Runoff for ANYTHING that they have done.   I was just reporting on the state of things in general and how I prefer to hear things!
Brian.

[B Tremblay]

While we recognize the value of sharing Ammscray's vintage fx sound clips, runoffgroove.com will not be hosting them.  We've chosen to continue concentrating our creative energies on circuit development.

We do realize the necessity of sharing representative clips of vintage boxes, so we're hoping that a member of this community can assist Ammscray in making them available.

Also, feedback on the site is always valuable to us and accurate samples of our circuits will continue to be a priority.

Finally, many thanks to all who have supported the site!  Knowing the content has been useful and fun makes it all worthwhile for us.