OT: Want to see something scary?

[mindwave_21]

Sorry for getting all political and whatnot, but I thought I'd share this to you all as it was shared to me.  Now, as a college student, this kind of news freaks me out.

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2004-05-14/cols_ventura.html

Don't shoot the messenger   .
BTW, this is a great forum with great people!  Keep it up!

[Fret Wire]

Take it, to a degree, with a grain of salt. Most of these type of articles are slanted towards the right or left, depending on the author or paper. It's amazing how you can even quote factual numbers, and still manage to put a spin on it for your own agenda. What facts you do and don't omit is how you make your journalistic point. And I haven't even commented on the actual topic. It's easy to see how this would upset someone your age. You'd have to read from several sources on this, and put it all through the BS sifter, to get a good fix on what's what.

A forum like this is kinda like a bar: religion and politics usually are better off left outside.

Why it's easy for any of us to go on a soapbox about this, rightwing or leftwing, it would nothing more than the same thing we accuse politician's and the media of: "Frontin". Why? Because Politics, and the World, itself, is a lot more complicated than any formite could sum up in a thread, plain and simple.

[mindwave_21]

True, so true.  Thanks for the reply.  Just thought people would like to see it for the sake of seeing it.

[bwanasonic]

A forum like this is kinda like a bar: religion and politics usually are better off left outside.

Why it's easy for any of us to go on a soapbox about this, rightwing or leftwing, it would nothing more than the same thing we accuse politician's and the media of: "Frontin". Why? Because Politics, and the World, itself, is a lot more complicated than any formite could sum up in a thread, plain and simple.

Well said, but I don't think the post was political as much as just saying "Sh*t!, I don't wanna get drafted!"

sings: "I don't wanna get drafted, I don't want to go! I don't want get drafted, no no no... cue "Dumb All Over" . The world may be complicated, but Frank Zappa managed to sum up a lot of it in a single song.

Kerry M

[jrc4558]

If we're dumb, than God is dumb!
And a little ugly on the side!!!!!!!

True! Very true!

[Fret Wire]

Good Point.....Rock N' Roll may not understand the political topics very well, but it does sum up our feelings about them very well.

[smoguzbenjamin]

Politics are better left outside? Maybe, but I feel fine to talk about politics once or twice, but for the rest stay on topic. Politics are usually cause for arguments but I think that if everyone listens to eachother respectfully and the once again respectfully brings out their opinion that discussions over politics can work fine.

I don't condone what US troops have done in that prison, but now a soldier is claiming that she got orders from higher ranks. Sounds like BS to me, more like "It isn't my fault, he told me to!". The whole Iraq war is a waste of time in my opinion. Just let the Iraqis live with anarchy on their own and they'll end up getting fed up with the mess, and realize that they've screwed up. Yes there are a lot of innocent people there, but think about African governments taking aid money and building palaces with it, while the country has a million$$ world debt and 80% of the population is starving. Just as bad. Is George W gonna stop them? No. My opinion is that this whole Iraq war was about oil, not terrorism.

Let's face it, we're sadistic a**holes if you look at it that way, eating T-bone steak an' all :mrgreen:


Whoops I've gone of and splurted politics all over the place... :roll: Sorry

[petemoore]

Edit: [...]

[u1061810]

You're probably right Ben, I guess it's about the oil.
  IMHO after September 11 the American Government felt it had to take action, misguided or not, and Hussain was the most visible despot on the scene who was a tried and true "enemy". This war is not going to stop terrorism in anyway, not as long as there are fanatics that are willing to die to kill others.I guess you have to have hope that mankind can resolve these problems, because if you don't you lack faith in the ability of man to transcend to a higer level of existence, seeing a future only of war, desolation and extinction.Cheery subject, isn't it.

[Samuel]

I wouldn't get too upset about that article. People have been talking about the draft like its a sure thing since Sept. 11.  I went back to work on Sept. 13th and the guy in the next cube was joking about if I had my draft card ready. ("Hey, that's real hilarious about me maybe getting shot somewhere far away, really, a total stitch...")

We have no draft law, at the moment, although there is a bill on the books: http://www.theorator.com/bills108/hr163.html My understanding is the current bill was proposed by anti-war democrats as a way of saying "Uh, hey, this is where we're heading!"

If either party makes a play for reinstating the draft you're going to see a flood of former senators, cabinet members, etc. suddenly entering the private sector in 2-6 years. Think the Iraq war is losing popularity now? Just wait til the government is forcing children of voters to go over there. The reasons we went over there will immediately become a good deal murkier to Ma and Pa Kettle when Kettle, Jr. is strapping on a flak jacket.

[Bluesgeetar]

Maybe it is good.  Funny how they keep referencing that Iraq prison job.  You know they had my attention and I felt ashamed and bad until I clicked on this link:

http://members.cox.net/nx100/_66501_american_beheading.exe

After watching this I really could care less what happens to anyone over there other than Americans.  They are lucky I ain't president; all the middleastern countries would be a nuclear waste land by the time I got done.  Please don't go to that link unless your ready.  I was sick as a dog at my stomach for about 6 hours after watching it.

Sorry if posting this was a little or alot out of line.

[smoguzbenjamin]

I know it (and no I haven't watched it), they showed that on the news here untill the bit where they roll him on his side and grab a knife. I agree with ya Bluesgeetar, makes me wanna nuke the entire middle east too :evil:

[RDV]

Gee, if it was about oil it was a huge failure, cause gas prices have gone up about 70% in the last year here. I know it's still a bargain compared to European gas, but we americans are a spoiled bunch(this includes me), and it's putting a drain on my finances(I drive an old gas hog). I think the real reason we're there has to do with cranking up the old war($) machine for the fatcats to get rich(er).

My necks been bothering me since I saw that video of that poor guy. What is this ? The middle ages again? Though I think we're in for a lot more of those sorts of images till we get the hell OUT of there.

RDV

[Samuel]

I agree with ya Bluesgeetar, makes me wanna nuke the entire middle east too :evil:

Boy I sure as hell don't. You want to kill millions of people due to the actions of a relatively small organization? You really believe that all the people in Abu Ghraib were terrorists who are getting what they deserve? Even our own military admits that 3/4 of the people in that prison probably don't belong there.

1) Nick Berg's murder was awful. We should absolutely find those responsible and punish them in the most severe manner that we reasonably can.

2) What has been done to the Iraqi prisoners is far beneath us as a country. We should punish those responsible, because their actions have seriously endangered what our mission in Iraq appears to be, which is half nation-building, half PR.

How do these two things cancel each other out? (Or rather, how does the first negate the second?)

[Hal]

it seems that _most_ of us agree that the US has no business (still or ever) being in Iraq.  

So please, please, please, all of you who are more than 5 months older than me, go out and Vote for Kerry!!!

_please_ don't try to be an idealist and vote for Nader, and cost Kerry the election.  You might as well vote for Bush then.  

this is what i call voting by proxy.  Im not old enough, so i convince some1 else to get out there and vote :-D

[smoguzbenjamin]

Hmm that's true Sam... Sorry, got a little carried away. 'scuse me :mrgreen:

Darnit I can't even vote for US gov't when I'm 18. Just ole Dutchie gov't for me, which has piss-all to say in global politics. Yup. I'm going to stop now before I say anything wrong.

[u1061810]

Gee, if it was about oil it was a huge failure, cause gas prices have gone up about 70% in the last year here.old ). I think the real reason we're there has to do with cranking up the old war($) machine for the fatcats to get rich(er).


 The war machine$$ is definitely a big issue too.I'd say the situation is still too volatile to see any drop is gas prices, and it's more about controlling the flow rather than passing the savings on to the little guy.We didn't learn from the 70's with those gas guzzlers of our parents, we just (the US)feel into the same trap,(SUVs the like)and now we're paying for it. The Hybrids out there seem like a start in the right direction though, hopefully they'll be successful.

[Fret Wire]

My original post on this thread is sounding better all the time.

Besides the fact that we can't sum up all the problems and solutions on one thread, the large majority of us don't even remotely have the depth of understanding on such complex issues to do anything more than offer our opinions as fact. Whether it's conservative or liberal.

We might have more credibility if we all were having this debate at a VFW,  or wherever politicians hang. That would mean maybe some of us have shed some blood on the topic, or have worked in the system to be part of the solution.

Picture someone stationed over there, reading this thread from fx builders, who are sitting indoors, in front of computers, with no tan, supporting or bashing things they really dont have a clue about.

Am I saying that none of us should have an opinion because some of us haven't paid our dues in the military or in politics? No..we all have our feelings and opinions on these topics. But we forget that's what they are....our opinions , based on emotions, not fact, that we state as fact. And in this country, don't forget that since 1776, someone has spilled their blood so we could have our opinion. In some countries, they'd love to have that, and are amazed at all the spoiled sniveling we do.

That's why you always hear the old "no religion or politics" thing. Not because it's taboo, but because prevents emotionally charged, non-factual debates from getting out of hand in the wrong places.

Goes back to what I was saying about certain OT's not really fitting into a non-political forum like this.

[BillyJ]

:idea:    ohm

[Fret Wire]

Wasn't that a mouthful!  :shock:

Pete, suggesting I'm saying non-communication is the answer is the kind of "frontin" I was talking about. Communication and exchange on this topic is great. What understanding will you get on the topic from other well meaning, but uninformed people? Do you go on non related forums for fx questions?

My point was simple, it was about certain OT's and their place on the forum. Maybe stating why that should be... struck a nerve in a few people who want to front their opinions as fact. But, away from this computer, I always found people like that tend to shut up around peolple who are well versed and experienced on the subject.