NEwbie that needs help.

[cyberkidd007]

ok well i really want distortion and i kinda like the DIY part about it. I know it would cost more at rs but its just a "down the street reliable source" and i could just pickup a few things. And if i do get the distortion pedal working i want to make one for my friends and radio shack comes in packs of 5 so thats good. But i kinda need some help in soldering the connections. http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/v2/richardo/perfboard/electra.gif this is what i want to make but i dont understand how to connect them on the bottom very well and i dont want to screw up. Is this something good to go off of or should i pick another circut that is electra? I want to solder sockets in the place of the diodes and stuff like runoffgroove does so i can just switch them out and stuff.

[RDV]

If you read the Tweak-O article you would have an idea how to proceed with the Electra also because the same principles apply. Read, and ye shall learn. Read the DIY FAQ. Read all of GEOFEX. Read all of AMZ. READ.  :wink:

Regards

RDV

[Fret Wire]

The RS route is fine, but have you decided if you want a switch? Do you want true by pass? LED indicator? RS has limited switches if you want this. What about a box? They really don't have much that can stand up to much stomping. Sometimes it's better to order from other sources. Aron, for example has the best prices on the 3PDT switches.

[petemoore]

I've built the Electra, one of my first.
 First, look at the schematic, even get pen and paper, copy by hand big, and mark the connections at the nodes.
 Note how many connections are to be made at each node, and plan the physical placement of all parts at that node as you go, layout should be giving you a little extra room, Leaving a small amout of component lead [enough to access that side of the component where possible {electrolytics/no] so you can test by touching most of the connections atop the board with the DMM's probe.
 Measure the value of every resistor with the DMM, lay all the parts out.
 When soldering, get rid of big globs on the tip, [I use cheep RS iron and have been 'knocking it off'] or clean the tip repeatedly with a damp [almost wet?] cotton rag. Wear goggles or close your eyes when tip cleaning, long pants don't hurt.
 Lead bending is an art, having the lead stay still. contacting the pad or other lead makes the actual soldering easier.
 Mounting the board, [I mount the soldering iron in a brick]...either way gives you an extra hand.
 Plan the approach and retreat of the tips contacting the leads/pads to be fuzed together. I like to get contact [fairly directly/quickly][so as not to disturb other 'near connections] with the non-blobbed tip, to as much surface area of the parts to be soldered as possible, then add a touch of solder to allow the heat to transfer through ALL the metals [another slight dab helps heat sink in for many connection nodes].
 Add heat/solder until solder is 'stuck to all the leads and that pad.
 Socketting the transistor: recommended for heat non/damage to transistor, For these points, you could poke the 1/2 length lead through the board, in a hole next to the transistor socket pin, then bend a U shape [1/3 inch is about too deep of a U] on the end of the lead coming from the top of the board, and pull the body of the component so as to 'plug the lead into the hole with the transistor socket pin, also pin the socket to the board flatly for the first pin.
 Be careful about transistor, diode [I think they can go backwards like 'TOT 'can] and any polarized capacitors pinouts and orientations.
 If you have a small drill bit, loop the offbaord wires through a hole in the board...near...add offboard components liek pots and battery clips last. To check connections of pot and stuff, find on the schematic where they're supposed to go, then use the DMM Beep mode to be certain the correct wire to lug connections are made.
  Use the DMM Beep mode across the battery clip buttons to test for direct shorts of power supply. Check any other connections or..
 Load the transistor and test the circuit. You'll be able to tell right away if it's working, turn the pot test that the cable to the amp is live, and that input source [guitar] is present in the input cable.
 I use test jig for this..Search "test jig". Just a 2 boxes 2 jacks, three test clips on wires for 1 ground to both jacks 2 input jack to circuit conntection  3  output connetcion to circuit. The bottom box separates the jacks from the bare board and mounts them, the top box is non conductive.
 If it's not working, use the DMM and the schematic, and see that ALl connections are made, or not made [as the case for that Node may be],
then try the audio probe.
 When that doesn't work, read at GEO about transistor biasing, or post the transistor pin voltages measured with DMM/ DC volts, 20V range, I like a test clip wire from DMM black to circuit ground, with battery connected, measure with red lead at each transistors lead> E, B amd C, post your findings here.
 While you have the black lead on ground, switch to beep mode on DMM, and test that all ground connections of schematic are made, including the cable grounds, there should be enough grounded cable plug metal to touch with the probe when the cable is plugged in.
 For a jackless test jig, poke the plugs through the thick cardboard, and use large test clips at each end of a wire X4 to make the grounds and input and output connections to the cable plugs..sleeve and tip, this method saves jacks, but is gangly, and less dependable.
 I just put a good length [3-4 inches] of input conection wire [from te input cap] and output wire [from the vol control], this makes the board sit right, and the clips stay away from making stray connections.
 This IMO is the least debuggy way to build...I'm thinking .."Did I miss something?" because I often do...the debugging skills really come from reading, comprehension of more complex reading, experience, and mental computing/use of the DMM in every way possible.
  I Hope this helps, I know how defeating first build problems can seem, take your time, and double check the connections on the board and the schematic repeatedly...I used to draw by hand schematics of small circuits, I can draw up an LPB or FF, familiarizing yourself with the schematic is a good idea...you're probably getting there by now...

[cyberkidd007]

OK i think i get the hang of what to do and ill stay up late readin i can garuntee that. BUt what is the program use to make all the perford layouts? i would make one like that and then load it up when i got it how i wanted it to be. I like the modded ones that he used in my last post because u can change the clipping with a couple of switch flips. Well ill let you guys know more later.
thanx for the help petemoore
and i dont really need it for STOMPING just like press it and "distortion" thats it since i just started learning guitar. I just want a press switch and thats about it other than clipping on the layout im doing
also one last thing. on here http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/v2/richardo/perfboard/electra.gif  it doesnt list wich diodes i should use. i have searched around but cant seem to find much help. I want both soft and hard diodes for my switches. Also should i just use a regulat switch ? or what? and is the Q1 gonna cost me alot? (i forgot the name)  if so what else could  i use?
thanx "alot"
'KiD

[petemoore]

Doesn't the original Electra sepcify the diodes?
 If this is you're first effect, You might want to keep it kind of simple.
 I'm not sure what kind of diodes that picture uses, for a 1 transistor build, that sure is alot of diodes having never seen or tried of that build I can only speculate about what the extra diodes might do.
 I would try the Electra distortion, and leave a little room for the diodes that connect to ground so as to add them later, or use sockets for the diodes, I use an 8 pin IC socket for most first try builds so I could try different types and configurations.
 Since these diodes configurations have two connections each [each set] lifting one end [disconnecting] will disable that set, a simple spst switch will do that.
 I suggested, but didn't hear about [so I assume the theory is true......has to be] using Ge's [which clip 'early'] and Si's [their higher threshold wouldn't be met if the Ge's clipp first] all in one diode clipping 'place' and use an SPST on the GE's...when they're 'in, only they would clip because their clipping wouldn't allow the SI's to see enough voltage to start clipping [the GE's clip that voltage at a lower level] then with the Ge's disabled [by the SPST] the Si's would clip [assuming that part of the circuit met their voltage threshold.
 
                          l<
                  Ge's >l    SpST
  Signal <                               >Ground
                   Si's  l<    wire
                          >l
 
  < means signal connects to both Ge's and Si's [one side]
  > means ground connect to Switch/then Ge's,  and  connects to Si's
  >l and l< means  diode

[cyberkidd007]

ok i think i will just use the double clip settting layout and just put the regular diodes [1N4001 silicon diode (276-1101)] in on of the sockets and leave the otherone blank until i figure out exactly what i am doing. I have re copied down the schematics know i just have to make a copy of a perf and start tryin alot of combinations. Then ill post hopefully tommorow and get it approved then goto rs and buy the parts tomorow or the next day and put it together. Petemoore since you have built one (refering to your post a couple up from here) you would know approx what size box to use. What do you think would be a good one? I am looking at the rs alum. ones for like 3 bux. I dont know what they are off the top of my head though. And about how big should my perf be?

[cyberkidd007]

ok on the  duel version that i am going to make it doesnt have a dpdt switch does all this do is turn it on/ off? Because if it did that then couldnt i rig a stero input to the ring and sleeve to be ground/-v ? and then when u plug it up it turns on?

[petemoore]

I don't follow the latest question.
 My 'way', is: assemble the circuit, test for battery clip short, try firing it up with the least possible jacks and switches.
 Once I'm certain the circuit is working dependably, I think about boxes or Bypass switches and jacks.
 I judge perf size cut [I use the largest size and cut what I need off, to save money/time] by counting column parts [how many parts are 'stacked' on the schematic...say you have your emitter resistor, transistor, and Collector resistor being the 'tallest' part of the circuit {up and Down ways]....add 5 perfhole spaces for each component at the 'tallest part of the schematic.
 For that circuit, I would use at least three lines [15 holes high] of a large perfpiece, cut all the way across the bottom...that should be high enough and more than long enough [cutting the perf across the 'short' dimension, all the way across]. You may want to add a fourth 'column' high [5 more holes high or total of 20 holes high] because of the diodes in there...but they can probably easily be accomodated [at 15 hole high] by using length instead.
 ROG has a blank perfboard pictures, make copies of that, and draw up your parts placement to figure out size and where stuff goes.
 Those RS boxes are a bit of a hassle, I've used them, they are easy to drill [the larger holes may 'warpl' the flat..you end up with a 'twisted' and heaved up area around the larger holes cause the drill 'grabs and prys up at the end of the cutting, easy pressure and very flat {cutting with the drill bit exactly vertical] may help... :cry:
 Also they tip over too easy, not stable, and it's hard to dress them up with the way the top fits the bottom, cheep [somewhat] effective, there's better boxes....
 For a long time I used RACO junction boxes [like behind your wall plug outlet] after re-inforcing the punchouts with JB Weld epoxy...they either take alot of work and bondo, my prefferrred method of dressing them is with old thin leather or blue jean material YMMV [whatever YMMV means???] YMMV=???[I don't know...something about your results may vary???
 I'ts hard to beat those Hammond type boxes, I heard of ones going for 6 or something online. I've always wanted to try one....
 For a circuit like that, noise caused by lack of shielded box may not be an issue...mostly high gainers is where you'd notice lack of shielding issues, but you could just shield the input wire, or make it not so long, and might notice no difference in noise.
 Lately, I've been taking a sheet of 'good' [thick enough] metal plate, like off an old amp or whatever...if it has 1.5''-2'' sides that's a plus, then building a wood frame around that. this is nice in that I can build the circuit first, size the box to my needs, run all the pots off one end of the board, and thread a hole in the board [where theres a space with no parts/wires], and run one screw through the box into the threaded board hole, and with a piece of hard clear [sorta thick...retail packaging] plastic
under the board, it's either mounted firmly enough [watch you don't clamp down too hard and cause a misconnection of underboard wires], or the bottom of the board can be accessed well with the loosening of the one screw.  Being able to access the bottom of the board is prime consideration in my box choice/assembly techniques.
 A couple layers of electrical tape between underboard 'stacked' wires will insulate them even if they get clamped a little.
 So either by finishing the board first for sizing the box, or planning the perf layout to predict the outcome of the board size, [you need accomodation for pots, battery {if inside battery, I end up with battery hanging outside the box before} jacks switches etc] you can start looking for enclosures that meet your needs.
 For grounded enclosures, I use urethane substrate, or the thick plastic sheets you find, used for theft prevention on many products, under the board, to protect the underboard connections from shorts.
 Use the conventional standoffs to mount your board, and disregard all the above suggestions .
 First thing for me, is getting a working circuit on a non jacked/switched board, I find this greatly simplifies debugging of the actual circuit.
 I've been going for 'long, wide boxes with a more shallow profile, tall sides make it harder to do work on the circuit when the pots, and all are wired/mounted in it. I began to think about how these boxes prevent EZ access to the bottom of the board, and tired of removing surface mounted jacks/pots etc, or having to remove the entire circuit and all offboard components to do work on it, ...I like wide enough box to put all pots and offboard wires coming from one side of the board, that way I can simply lift the other side to get to it....shallow makes the iron easier to 'angle' in. too shallow though, and the bottom has components protruding  :oops: ...all a matter of taste.
 Shallow also has the advantage of wide footprint/low center of gravity=stability from a cable tipping it up or over.
 One of my favorite 'boxes' is a large panel from a large reciever...housing 3 circuits...this reduces the need for cables/jacks and battery connections...I use boost, phaze, and FUzz alot, having these three circuit types in 1 box...I use it all the time. I prefer hardwiring [no cable/jack connections] whenever possible, but it reduces the flexability...once a circuit is in a certain chain position and hardwired...to change the order of effects requires a soldering session....more than one well chosen circuits that work well together [and you like] has advantages and disadvantages...

[cyberkidd007]

ok i dont get how you use it without switches and jacks wouldnt it be more complicated? and on my last question what do dpdt swtiches do?  If they turn it on i could wire it like this  http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/beginners/images/image4.gif to turn it on when i plug it up?
thanc
'KiD

[petemoore]

I guess it all depends on youre viewpoint.
 I find that the more I can reduce what needs debugged, by division [eliminating variables wherever possible] the easier it is to debug.
 Check out the paragraph]s above about test jig...for a circuit to work in the chain between guitar and amp, ground must be made to both cables [from guitar/ to amp] as well as hot [tip] connection from guitar to effect input, and hot [tip connection of cables plug end] from effect output to amp. However these connections are made doesn't really matter, as long as they are isolated from any stray connection, and "made', ...from my Experience/for my testing purposes that is.

[cyberkidd007]

well im gonna run up to rs in about an hour or two. I was wondering what type of switches should i get? Just regular ones or xx? Then ill just get the normal diodes that is in the regular schem's and all that stuff. Ill just get the bare nesesities. should i use stero plugs or mono? if i use stero i could make the power on when it is pluged in or i could just use a switch and run mono  right? would it change my sound any? or be cheaper?

[cyberkidd007]

ok i think that i have decided to just go with the regular electra setup since it has a full tut and since it has been done many times so i can get help. Also i started looking at my schem for the modded version and it doesnt have any pots or anything on it so i am just going to do the regular but leave some space for that mod a lil later.

[cyberkidd007]

ok i took alook a rog's pic of the electra that he made and he didnt use a dpdt switch what exaclty does it do? And has anyone out there done this on perfboard? OR know a link to info about someone who did it with a perfboard? WEll i am on my way to rs now and if i have the money i will go ahead and buy a switch if not i will have to rig the power to the stereo input jack.
Thanx
'KiD

[petemoore]

In the beginning I figured I'd really only NEED say a few or more boxes with all the doodads.
 I decided to focus my money and energies toward the "trying many circuits theory"...in which I spent less time worring about switching and boxes, more time building and testing different circuits.
 Now I've tried 100+ circuits and have about 15-20 of those boxed up, others have been scavenges for thier parts...I'm an A/B type, comparing and contrasting different tonal/electronic circuit types.
 To my reckoning, boxing averages out to about 1/2 or more of the time it takes compared to building the board...testing and tweaking the board notwithstanding.
 Many of the circuits had a real bad reaction to my boxing attempts with them/frying, shorting, not working properly in one way or another, so I decided to forgo the 'extras' until I was certain I'd like what the circuit does enough to warrant another 'bout with boxing'.  ...You're boxing experiences may vary.
 None of my boxes look like they have the time/money in them as the 'better' looking ones seen in pics around here...so if you want great looking very neat/compact builds/boxes, you're better off following someone with experience in making great looking boxes.
 Some of my boxes look PDGood, but still 'homey-er' than those that started with a Hammond box.
 So I figure it's a total waste time wiring up switches, jacks, leds etc and mounting all that up and into a box with the circuit that doesn't work or doesn't provide the desired degree of pleasure. For a circuit with only a knob or two, if they're well placed, the box can be used for some other circtuit sometimes, depending on the box layouts...why waste a good box, and go through re-solders on your jack lugs etc etc. when you can test and compare and find something I'm certain I will really like for a while or forever before drilling...and doing all the etc's
 I also found that debugging the switch and jack wiring is much easier when the wires are connected to a circuit that Is known to work.
 After doing a couple True Bypasses, it becomes very easy to debug anyway though with the DMM set on beep mode, and following the DPDT [or 3PDT for LED indicator] true bypass art at GEO after understanding the related text.

[petemoore]

But it's all good...
 For reference, all this is just suggestions, take from it only what you can use, disregard the rest.

[cyberkidd007]

ok just got back from RS and here are the things i got for 20 dollars:
Metal P-BOx (270-238)
1n4001 SI diode (276-1101)
Audio Taper Pot (271-1722)
2) 8 pin IC sockets (276-1995)
.01?f (u and p mixed symbol) (272-1069)
perfboard (276-149a)
9v batt snaps (270-325)
47k resitors 1/4 (271-1342)
2)1/4 stero jacks (274-312b)
680 resistor 1/2 (271-1117)
2n3904 SI transistor (276-2016)

THats what i got for 20 bucks
they didnt have any 2.2m resistors or a dpdt switch that i needed. Is there a way i could substitute these parts for someting? And did i get the right stuff  for the reg. ELectra? and is the 1/2 watt 680 resistor OK?
thanx
'KiD

[Hal]

return it all, and order from smallbearelec.com

Im only half kidding there.  It will probably cost less than $20 for all that stuff, even after shipping. And you would get a nice, heavy box if you buy a hammond, not the RS junk, and you will get good jacks, not the RS junk...

Steve (from smallbear) also has the switches you need, and all normal resistor values.

If you can still return the board, you can also get nice, pad per hole perfboards from him for a good price.

[cyberkidd007]

well thats too late because ive drawn all over the box and opened half the stuff. I really need to be putting it together tonight. And finish it tommorow. i just need to know what do to without the switch because ROG did, and what i can replace the 2.2m resistor with? Then i can start drawing my perfboard layout. SOmone please help.
thanx
'KiD

[petemoore]

Electral Schematic your'e using
 ok..I checked the schematic at Fuzz Central, and there's a 3M3 resistor [3.3 Megohms] on that one, if your schematic calls for 2M2...probably anything you can put in there that measures between 2m and 3Meg, will be fine...
 I didn't see one at ROG, so I don't know what the switch you're referring ot is.
 For the BIG resistor,...parallel resistors of equal value are 1/2 of what an individual resistor of that value would be:
            1M
   ---<        >--- =500k or .5 meg  
            1M
   set the resistors next to each other [parallel] and tie twist the four leads together [two leads at each end, to make one path through both R's]....doing this with any two same resistors...calculate RX.5 or half as much resistance..check with DMM
  or...two 4M7's in parallel should come in around 2.6Meg [check my math].
 Conversly...two 1M resistors SERIESED...will come in close to 2MEG[in a row...pick two leads, one from each resistor and tie those together]
 Seriesed resistors of same value double the resistance...
 RX2 or 1M + 1M=2M  
     ---1Meg---1Meg---  =2Meg
 I don't know of drawbacks using this method other than the obviouse board space/neatness issues [seriesed R's..sometimes I 'tag' where they meet down through the board to an otherwise open [not connected] pad...just to physically tie them down/less dangly]