Author Topic: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise! (UPDATE)  (Read 37231 times)

Arno van der Heijden

WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise! (UPDATE)
« on: October 13, 2005, 06:45:21 PM »
The Tonecore pedals are modular and interchangeble! How cool is that  :icon_mrgreen:



More info:
http://www.vettaville.nl/vvtonecoremodularity.html
« Last Edit: January 21, 2006, 04:46:56 AM by Arno van der Heijden »

12afael

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2005, 07:07:48 PM »
 :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:
cool

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2005, 07:39:40 PM »
woaaaaah

way to go line6!!!

vanhansen

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2005, 08:24:40 PM »
Now THAT is cool.  I could see that being very useful.
Erik

Paul Perry (Frostwave)

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2005, 10:12:41 PM »
Can you say "third party supplier"?? :icon_wink:

Peter Snowberg

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2005, 10:34:09 PM »
So which DSP do these things use anyway?  :)
Eschew paradigm obfuscation

SonicVI

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2005, 11:26:00 PM »
I imagine it won't be long before they come out with a pedal board that allows you to create preset combinations.

Paul Perry (Frostwave)

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2005, 03:45:22 AM »
So which DSP do these things use anyway?  :)

I don't know, but the AD SHARC series is getting a bit of a stranglehold on low end DSP audio. The $10 ones could do any of this stuff easy, codec on board.

brad

  • Guest
Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2005, 04:04:51 AM »
I wonder if there'd be a way to mount the module in a hammond box...

amz-fx

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2005, 08:02:48 AM »
I wonder if there'd be a way to mount the module in a hammond box...

No, you need the base which has a large part of the processing circuitry built into it...  the modules by themselves can do nothing.

For some reason, Line 6 has not allowed us to talk about this until now, but this is the way we have been handling the beta units...  it is quite easy to mail just the modules for reprogramming.  I only have two base units but a large collection of the modules as shown below.  As far as I know, there are no plans to sell just the modules without the base units but who knows?



regards, Jack

Mark Hammer

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2005, 09:18:49 AM »
As a tiny part of the beta team, I inquired about the module thing.  Since the mechnism for removing the modules is user-accessible (it's the little black button on the rear skirt) I was curious about whether there might be future plans for being able to purchase modules separately.  From the little I could squeeze out of them, it did not seem like it.  For the moment, my own best guess (and it IS merely a guess - NOT some sort of press release or anything authoritative) is that the "module thing" has two basic goals.

One is that it permits Line 6 to fabricate the most expensive part of the pedal series as a single (well, dual, because there are mono and stereo chassis) generic item.  Followers of this forum will remember some experiments conducted by folks a few years ago, in which they found that the EPROM from one "Modeller" floor pedal could be plunked into any other and transform it to that pedal (i.e., a Filter Modeller EPROM placed in a Delay Modeller made it a Delay Modeller).  (From the user's perspective that entertains certain risks, so don't try it if you aren't up to the challenge).  From the manufacturer's perspective, even though the guts-of-the-chassis-plus-program-module was in place, the Modeller series required fabrication/legending of separate chassis for each pedal in the line.  The Tone Core series chassis are completely nondescript.  Pop the module out and you would have no idea which pedal in the series the chassis is for.  That affords them the opportunity to get a jobber to make them X number of thousand chassis at a reasonable price, which can then simply have the modules installed.  The modules themselves are relatively inexpensively produced.  All of this is to say that the generic-chassis-plus-module approach is a big part of what allows them to pack as much power-per-dollar as they do into a pedal.

Another aspect is that it makes repairs of many (though certainly not all) kinds an absolute breeze.  You bring the pedal in to an authorized dealer.  The dealer calls up Line 6 and, one assumes, gets a replacement module, not unlike happens with boards for many other entertainment appliances.  It also makes upgrades possible without having to do a major redesign.  For instance, since the very first release of the Echo Park, some programming improvements were made in the noise gating function.  Line 6 can simply plunk the new modules into production pedals without having to change anything other than the programming module.  Brilliant.  SHOULD they decide to make such upgrades available to registered owners (and again, I have no idea about whether they have such plans or not, but it *would* be a nice idea, nudge, nudge, wink wink), it would be the sort of thing they could entrust to the owners, because all that's involved is pushing the little black button, lifting the module, and snapping the new module in - conceivably the easiest user-accessible upgrade ever invented.  Once again, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.  Maybe even more brilliant than the effects themselves.

Should one *PLAN* around being able to buy a couple of chassis and waiting for them to release modules?  Nah.  In the first place, I don't think they have plans to.  In the second place, as someone with two chassis and 4 modules, I was pining away for more chassis because the effects were so much fun I didn't want to forfeit any.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 10:13:38 AM by Mark Hammer »

Steben

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2005, 10:03:22 AM »
I agree to the last.

Why would you have only a couple of bases and a bunch of modules you cannot use?

C'mon let's be serious: only DIY'ers can profit from a base with interchangeable modules, don't they  ;)
Rules apply only for those who are not allowed to break them

amz-fx

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2005, 10:09:33 AM »
There are some factory authorized mods to the base unit to improve power supply filtering and lessen noise....  I thought Keeley was doing them but I could not find a link to it on his site.  I'll check into it further...

regards, Jack

petemoore

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2005, 10:26:17 AM »
I agree to the last.

Why would you have only a couple of bases and a bunch of modules you cannot use?
  ...Because you want a 'tidy', abbreviated pedalboard array, yet controllable...fewer cables, PS, takes less room...I would use the modular thing at gigs, plugging in a module for 'cameo appearances' in certain songs.

C'mon let's be serious: only DIY'ers can profit from a base with interchangeable modules, don't they  ;)
Convention creates following, following creates convention.

petemoore

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2005, 10:28:36 AM »
  Just the novelty of the interchangable [like video game] modules IMO would certainly afford itself to the marketing dept.
  Since it is already there, making the modules separately accessible would seem a very smart move...seems a bit silly to not do that...you know there would be a demand, why not be the first to supply... :icon_confused:
  I'm reminded of the Duncan 'Convertible' amp, with the changable Dist/OD/Etc. modules with tubes in them.
  I don't know if I should worry about that 'strip connection' to maintain continuity to the module/base connections, [computers trust them I guess] I remember having to clean my Atari game modules and the bases copper connections periodically..
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 10:35:06 AM by petemoore »
Convention creates following, following creates convention.

Mark Hammer

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2005, 10:58:45 AM »
One of the goals of any manufacturer with large-volume worldwide aspirations is to market products where the likelihood of needing to provide support is nearly zero.  After all after-market support provides a huge overhead cost to the manufacturer, and ignoring customers, while it reduces overhead, doesn't exactly build you a loyal client base.

From this perspective, I can see why Line 6 might not be racing at breakneck speed to sell modules directly to customers.  I mean, why invite the opportunity to have to field queries about servicing of chassis that are buggered up?  And if you DID have, say, one chassis and the complete line of modules, what happens when the chassis encounters a problem from plugging in and unplugging modules (e.g., bent pin on the edge connector)?  How would you feel as a customer if your investment in 11 effects is suddenly undermined by the malfunctioning of the central component and now you have to score a chassis ASAP or else the recording session is screwed?

Again, I do NOT speak for them, but I can why understand, at least for the moment, they are holding these particular cards very close to their chest and not working hard to make the modularity widely known.  It just invites more headaches than it solves.

But boy oh boy it impresses the bejeezus out of people to push the button, pop the module and instantly have another effect! :)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2006, 10:10:25 AM by Mark Hammer »

MartyMart

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2005, 11:15:48 AM »
Reminds me of the "Dan Electro" perspex guitar with "plug in pickups" !!
Choose from HB/SC/ etc etc.... ( Dave from Foo Fighters uses one )
Nice design idea for sure !!

Marty.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm"
My Website www.martinlister.com

PharaohAmps

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2005, 12:02:30 PM »
Followers of this forum will remember some experiments conducted by folks a few years ago, in which they found that the EPROM from one "Modeller" floor pedal could be plunked into any other and transform it to that pedal (i.e., a Filter Modeller EPROM placed in a Delay Modeller made it a Delay Modeller).  (From the user's perspective that entertains certain risks, so don't try it if you aren't up to the challenge).

Haha!  That was me!  The only real limitation in doing any of that EPROM swapping was that the Delay Modeler has some extra RAM installed.  Without the extra RAM it doesn't operate correctly at all...  Of course, now my two MM-4 chassis have the extra RAM chips soldered in (gotta love being able to service and mod SMD electronics :) ) and can easily be convereted to DL-4 if I want to, but like Mark says, it's not much fun doing the swap.  The ToneCores are much easier to mess with, only two screws that have to come out, unlike the 4-stompers which have 6 or 8 screws.

As soon as I got my Echo Park, I took it apart.  I figured out the module thing before anyone told me, I just couldn't see how useful it would be to an end user.  To a manufacturer, it's gold!  Build 10,000 of the bases (which are expensive but get cheaper in quantity) and then build only as many modules as you need or sell.  That way you aren't stuck with twice as manu Uber Metals or whatever as you need.  Manufacturing / assemby becomes a breeze, just slot in your module and screw it down, test it and box it up.  The base can talk to whatever kind of module, and I bet a dollar that you can use a mono module in a stereo base if you had to.  I know you can use the EPROMs from the mono 4-stompers in the stere 4-stomp chassis and vice versa.  I think it's brilliant, personally.

AFAIK, the module contains only the stored program code and the controls (or whatever chip L6 uses to talk to the controls) so any kind of "module dock" setup would have to have either one real powerful DSP or one regular one for each module.  I can't really see any kind of allure for a rackmount box to use the modules, if I'm going to go rack, I'd want programmability.  Although if your module dock was smart enough, you could probably get it to store snapshots of knob and switch settings.

I'd love to see the ToneCore pedals have a "store" mode where it would remember its power down settings on power up regardless of where the knobs were.  If I get it dialed in at practice, it might be nice to have my settings stay put until I change them *on purpose* rather than getting bumped to some arbitrary position during load-in.

Matt Farrow
Pharaoh Amplifiers
http://www.pharaohamps.com

Mr.Huge

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2005, 06:38:08 PM »
Good Times...
BEN:   Mos Eisley Spaceport. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.

LUKE:   But I was going into Toshi Station to pick up some power converters...

VADER:   I find your lack of faith disturbing.

hairyandy

Re: WTF?! Line 6 Tonecore series surprise!
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2005, 07:10:49 PM »
I've known about this for a few months as well.  I know that Line6 is still trying to figure out how to exploit the modularity of the Tone Core line and I think the idea of a base that can handle more than one module could be really cool.  Imagine being able to buy bases in 2, 4, 6, and 8 combos and buy modules separately, and then be able to swap modules into different orders depending on the gig.  That would make a kickass centerpiece to a portable session rig for sure.  It'd also be nice to have send/return loops between the slots on the bases for inserting all of our DIY faves.

Could you get on that Mr. Huge?

:)

Andy Harrison
It's all about signal flow...
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