Author Topic: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007  (Read 131420 times)

papar0ni

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #60 on: April 29, 2010, 09:54:12 AM »
hello everyone, this is my first post here in DIYstompboxes.
i would just like to ask if the circuit of 9V EM MN3007 replacement is verified?

does anyone of you successfully built it with MN3007/MN3207?
if yes, how does it sound? any reviews? news?

i'm very eager to build a flanger pedal, electric mistress is my 1st option, but sad to hear SAD1024 is no longer available.

thanks guys more power!
 :)

Thomeeque

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #61 on: April 29, 2010, 10:06:07 AM »
hello everyone, this is my first post here in DIYstompboxes.
i would just like to ask if the circuit of 9V EM MN3007 replacement is verified?

does anyone of you successfully built it with MN3007/MN3207?
if yes, how does it sound? any reviews? news?

i'm very eager to build a flanger pedal, electric mistress is my 1st option, but sad to hear SAD1024 is no longer available.

thanks guys more power!
 :)

 Hi! Be so kind and read whole thread first, then ask..
Do you have a technical question? Please don't send private messages, use the FORUM!

Thomeeque

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #62 on: April 29, 2010, 11:10:41 AM »
I've done the layout following your instructions, but I just modified the 3007's one because I'm too lazy and ignorant to make a new layout.
Here are the PCB and the layout for MN3207 retrofit. Please check'em and let me know if they're ok  :P
http://img203.imageshack.us/i/sad1024retrofitmn3207pc.jpg/
http://img220.imageshack.us/i/sad1024retrofitmn3207lo.jpg/

 I have checked layout picture and I'd say it's OK (good work with the graphic editor btw.!), just two small notes:

 - make somehow visible on the layout and the PCB, that it's not EM RF V0.1 to avoid further confusion with original MN3007 version (maybe just add N as N-channel to version number like V0.1N)
 - I have used same circuitry in my EM3207 and as I say above, I'm not 100% satisfied with the result yet - but you may be, it's really just a note ;)

 Good luck!

 T.
Do you have a technical question? Please don't send private messages, use the FORUM!

DLC86

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2010, 10:35:13 AM »
I have checked layout picture and I'd say it's OK (good work with the graphic editor btw.!), just two small notes:

 - make somehow visible on the layout and the PCB, that it's not EM RF V0.1 to avoid further confusion with original MN3007 version (maybe just add N as N-channel to version number like V0.1N)
 - I have used same circuitry in my EM3207 and as I say above, I'm not 100% satisfied with the result yet - but you may be, it's really just a note ;)

 Good luck!

 T.
Thanks for having checked. I followed your suggestion, here the renamed layout and PCB:
http://img689.imageshack.us/i/sad1024retrofitmn3207pc.jpg/
http://img256.imageshack.us/i/sad1024retrofitmn3207lo.jpg/
I remember they're for MN3207

About the satisfaction, I can only be happy because I've never owned an analog flanger, so I have nothing to compare it with. But if I'll have an issue or I'll try some different components I'll let you know, I'm going to build it next week.
Thank U again

Regards

shadowmaster

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #64 on: May 09, 2010, 11:29:37 AM »
Here are some pics of my build.







However I do have some questions.

Was this clone build designed to have it's knobs work in reverse? Full counter clockwise is max speed, max range and max feedback. Looking at gut shot pics of those who built it, I really think that such is the case.

During slow settings, I am hearing some thump (tik-tak). It's very noticeable and and I want to eliminate it. It happens at a slow to mid rate setting. On slower settings, I would hear a dry and wet signal that alternates and the thump seems to sound at the start and end of the wet signal (sweep). I'm guessing that the 4013 flip-flop is responsible for this. Am I correct?

Other than the above issues, my build does what it supposed to do.


oldschoolanalog

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #65 on: May 09, 2010, 01:20:34 PM »
Here are some pics of my build.
Good stuff! :icon_cool:
Quote
Was this clone build designed to have it's knobs work in reverse? Full counter clockwise is max speed, max range and max feedback. Looking at gut shot pics of those who built it, I really think that such is the case.
I know what you mean. Just reverse your black & red pot leads. I did this on mine and it works great. The taper of the C1M has a more "correct" feel also.
Quote
During slow settings, I am hearing some thump (tik-tak). It's very noticeable and and I want to eliminate it. It happens at a slow to mid rate setting. On slower settings, I would hear a dry and wet signal that alternates and the thump seems to sound at the start and end of the wet signal (sweep).
Try these things. First, I can't see the values, but try putting larger caps across the PS. Markus suggests this in the notes on his schematic for the original project.
Next, try this. (From Pg. 2; Reply 26; this thread.)
I put 47R in series w/R29, at their junction a 22uF cap was connected to GND. Also, 100n PS bypass caps were installed at every IC (3007 board also). These 2 things are there to provide a measure of "insurance", so to speak.
The first suggestion "isolates" the LFO. The second one is a matter of "proper etiquette". Often overlooked.
Quote
Other than the above issues, my build does what it supposed to do.
Time to box it up & get rockin'! ;D
All the Best!
Mystery lounge. No tables, chairs or waiters here. In fact, we're all quite alone.

Just1More

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #66 on: May 09, 2010, 05:00:23 PM »
Here are some pics of my build.



Nice work. Mine is close to finished too. Just waiting on a couple more parts to arrive - should be here this week.

jorge r

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #67 on: May 09, 2010, 06:08:45 PM »
Hello

I've made a new layout joining both Gaussmarkovís layout and daughter-board by Tomas (Tomeeque).
It's already tested and working. I Used the mods suggested by Dave W.(oldschoolanalog).
Schematics later (I'm lazy now  ;D)

http://www.4shared.com/document/wPcCxA3H/Mistress_9v_MN3007.html

I hope you like it !


« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 06:56:43 PM by jorge r »

oldschoolanalog

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #68 on: May 09, 2010, 07:16:09 PM »
Nice work Jorge! 
Looks like there might be enough room on the PCB at the output to squeeze in a FET for a bit of volume boost.
Just a thought...
Glad to see more folks giving this retrofit a try. :icon_cool:
Mystery lounge. No tables, chairs or waiters here. In fact, we're all quite alone.

shadowmaster

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #69 on: May 09, 2010, 11:28:24 PM »
Quote
I know what you mean. Just reverse your black & red pot leads. I did this on mine and it works great. The taper of the C1M has a more "correct" feel also.

That's why I asked. It defeats the purpose of having a reverse log taper on the rate pot if installed the other way around.

Quote
Try these things. First, I can't see the values, but try putting larger caps across the PS. Markus suggests this in the notes on his schematic for the original project.
Next, try this. (From Pg. 2; Reply 26; this thread.)
I put 47R in series w/R29, at their junction a 22uF cap was connected to GND. Also, 100n PS bypass caps were installed at every IC (3007 board also). These 2 things are there to provide a measure of "insurance", so to speak.
The first suggestion "isolates" the LFO. The second one is a matter of "proper etiquette". Often overlooked.

I did not suspect the LFO as the cause of the thumping since I don't hear the thump at higher speed settings and immediately blamed the flip-flop isntead.  :icon_redface: 

Good thing you pointed out the notes on Markus' schematic. I overlooked some of the notes written on the schematic especially the one on the top.

Will try those big cap replacements first and see what happens since this does not require drilling additional holes or flying components. :icon_mrgreen:

The addition of resistor and cap network on the LFO supply should likely solve my problem if the first countermeasure fails.

Anyway thanks for your help. Much appreciated.

benqbasic

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2010, 07:55:39 PM »
Hello

I've made a new layout joining both Gaussmarkovís layout and daughter-board by Tomas (Tomeeque).
It's already tested and working. I Used the mods suggested by Dave W.(oldschoolanalog).
Schematics later (I'm lazy now  ;D)

http://www.4shared.com/document/wPcCxA3H/Mistress_9v_MN3007.html

I hope you like it !





Sweet Just etched the GGG version. Might save myself the daughter board and etch this.


DiamondDog

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2010, 11:44:29 PM »
Wow! I've been away for quite a few months and come back to something like this!

Kudos to everyone involved in this the and the other 30/3207 retrofits.

I'm not in a position to be a pioneer testing the "complete" layout- I still time constraints- but once it's sorted it will be on the list of to-dos for sure.

DD
It's your sound. Take no prisoners. Follow no brands. Do it your way.

"Protect your ears more cautiously than your penis."
    - Steve Vai, "The 30 Hour Workout"

shadowmaster

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2010, 12:00:49 PM »
I am still having issues with my Mistress. Here are some of my observations on my build so that you can easily help me figure out the problem.

1 ) My initial suspicion is its not the LFO. On higher speed settings the ticking goes away.  But I did not discount the possibility that it may still be the LFO.

2 ) I am using a regulated and well-filtered power supply to power my builds. My BSIAB2 and my Dr. Boogey are quiet when I power them with it.

3 ) Replaced C1 with 1000uF and nothing happened. My Phaseur Fleur kept its ticking into tolerable levels after installing a big cap to the rails. So I was surprised by the result with what happened to my EM. So I went straight to isolating the LFO and did not bother to change C2 and C3 anymore as advised to lower clock noise on its schem.

4 ) Lifted R29 from its V+ terminal and replaced it with one terminal of 47Ohm. I joined the remaining resistor terminals together and added the positive side of a 22uF electrolytic capacitor. The negative side of the 22uF goes to ground. Ticking is still present.

5 ) Temporarily removed the MN3007 from its daughterboard and ticking is not present. "Dry" signal is clean at the output.

6 ) Audio probed input and output terminals of Ic2. Ticking is only present at pin 6 and 7. Loud ticking also is present at pin 3 of MN3007.

7 ) On certain settings, the ticking goes away when Speed is changed. Ticking goes away too sometimes when Range and clock bias are fiddled. So the Speed, Range and clock bias have an of influence to the ticking.

8 ) No ticking at all on Filter Matrix mode regardless of the settings of the knobs.

9 ) Below is a sample soundclip of my EM. First and second samples shows the ticking. I was tweaking the range knob before going on to record the second sample. You will notice that the ticking slowed down a bit compared to the first. The third sample is set at higher speed and with no ticking present.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6983360/EM2.mp3

Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

Thomeeque

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2010, 12:28:46 PM »
Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

 At higher frequencies the amplitude of the LFO signal is lowered by two 1uF capacitors on it's way to the clock generator. That would explain, why it behaves differently..

 This and some other symptoms lead me to the idea, that it could be some kind of clock signal dropouts - but it should happen even in Filter-Matrix mode - does it really work in Filter-Matrix mode for full range?

 T.
Do you have a technical question? Please don't send private messages, use the FORUM!

shadowmaster

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2010, 11:46:23 AM »
Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

 At higher frequencies the amplitude of the LFO signal is lowered by two 1uF capacitors on it's way to the clock generator. That would explain, why it behaves differently..

 This and some other symptoms lead me to the idea, that it could be some kind of clock signal dropouts - but it should happen even in Filter-Matrix mode - does it really work in Filter-Matrix mode for full range?

 T.

Yup. No tick on Filter-Matrix. However while turning up the Range from 0% up to about 15% of the rotation CW it would tick once but then would be completely gone. So if I try to rotate that knob go back and forth to that 15% mark of rotation, a tick would be heard on that mark regardless of the setting of the Speed knob. I don't know if this of any significance. Other than that the Filter-Matrix mode is OK. No annoying continuous tick.

Probed the oscillator and there's nothing in there. The rhythm of the ticking is the same rhythm as the one I hear when I probed the node of clock outputs of the 4013 or clock inputs of the MN3007. I don't think I am supposed to hear anything on that node if the signal passing on that is beyond audio frequencies. If I would adjust the clock bias to eliminate the ticking but later on when changing the setting of either the Speed or the Range knob, the ticking would re-occur.

I have already changed the clock bias connection and followed the way the clock bias of the Deluxe is wired which I did not do the first time around. I am starting to suspect that I am not clocking it high enough or there must be some problems on one of my components that I can't clock it high enough. I don't own any oscilloscope so I cannot measure the clock frequency. I only use a freeware software oscilloscope and an external soundcard for some of my builds which I believe is not capable to measure anything above the audio spectrum so nada. Ticking still occurs on either the extreme sides of the clock bias trim.

Ideas anyone??? Thanks!

Thomeeque

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2010, 12:23:05 PM »
Yup. No tick on Filter-Matrix. However while turning up the Range from 0% up to about 15% of the rotation CW it would tick once but then would be completely gone. So if I try to rotate that knob go back and forth to that 15% mark of rotation, a tick would be heard on that mark regardless of the setting of the Speed knob. I don't know if this of any significance.

 You bet it is! :) In FLANGE MODE signal from LFO does exactly same thing (well, almost) as is continuous rotating of RANGE pot from the left to the right and back in FILTER-MATRIX mode! So the LFO goes periodical thru this 15% point up-and-down and cause this periodical ticking. I have to go now, more later..

 T.
Do you have a technical question? Please don't send private messages, use the FORUM!

shadowmaster

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2010, 09:19:53 AM »
Yup. No tick on Filter-Matrix. However while turning up the Range from 0% up to about 15% of the rotation CW it would tick once but then would be completely gone. So if I try to rotate that knob go back and forth to that 15% mark of rotation, a tick would be heard on that mark regardless of the setting of the Speed knob. I don't know if this of any significance.

 You bet it is! :) In FLANGE MODE signal from LFO does exactly same thing (well, almost) as is continuous rotating of RANGE pot from the left to the right and back in FILTER-MATRIX mode! So the LFO goes periodical thru this 15% point up-and-down and cause this periodical ticking. I have to go now, more later..

 T.

 :icon_biggrin:  Cool. Thanks for helping me out Thomeeque! Let me know if you need any more information.

Thomeeque

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2010, 05:51:00 PM »
:icon_biggrin:  Cool. Thanks for helping me out Thomeeque! Let me know if you need any more information.

 You're welcome!

 Well, I'm 99% sure that there's something wrong with the clock generator, most probably it drops out in 0-15% range (no clock signal for BBD). Plus I would say, when listening to the sample, that you are in lower frequency range than you should be..

 Is there a chance you could borrow oscilloscope and/or DMM capable of frequency measurement? Or visit somebody with these tools?

 Drop-outs you can check relatively easily even without these tools*, but for proper tuning it would be much better to have them.

 What transistor, diodes and capacitor (Q1, D1, D2 and C15 at this schemo) exactly you have used in the clock generator? What is approximate RT3 value dialed?

 T.

* For example you can create simple probe from normal LED and 4k7 (or 10k, something like that) resistor in series: connect cathode of the LED to circuit's ground, anode to one leg of the resistor and some wire to it's second leg - loose end of the wire makes measuring tip of the probe. When you connect this probe to one of clock signal pins at BBD (pin 2 and 6), you should see either
  • no light - clock is stuck at 0
  • full light - clock is stuck at 1
  • 50% light - clock is running

EDIT: Or you can just listen to the BBD output ( pins 7 and 8 ) by audio probe, there will be no signal passing thru BBD, if clock is stuck. :) What suits you better.. :)

(use either RANGE pot in FILTER-MATRIX mode or slow RATE in FLANGE mode)
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 06:10:08 PM by Thomeeque »
Do you have a technical question? Please don't send private messages, use the FORUM!

shadowmaster

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #78 on: May 14, 2010, 08:33:13 AM »
Quote from: shadowmaster
During slow settings, I am hearing some thump (tik-tak). It's very noticeable and and I want to eliminate it. It happens at a slow to mid rate setting. On slower settings, I would hear a dry and wet signal that alternates and the thump seems to sound at the start and end of the wet signal (sweep).

This is what I've mentioned earlier. There should be no dry signal at all in the first place. It should be all wet at the output. The dry signal appears because of clock dropouts. Correct?

Quote from: Thomeeque
(use either RANGE pot in FILTER-MATRIX mode or slow RATE in FLANGE mode)

You gave me a lead about Q1, D1, D2 and C15 so I began to check where have I gone wrong in these area. The only one easily replaceable among these components was the transistor since it was socketed, so I took out the 2N5087 in there and just tried to pop in a 2N3906 not expecting anything from it.

Turned the Range knob and there was no more ticking. I was surprised. Fiddled with the Speed knob and the clock trim and still no ticking while listening to a beautiful flanged sound at the output. Popped the 2N5087 back in there and the ticking was back.

WOOOHOOO!!! Success! The culprit causing the clock droupouts was the 2N5087 transistor.

Many thanks to the guys who contributed on this 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007 project especially Dave and Thomeeque.

Well I still want to know why the 2N5087 caused the dropouts and it's not with a 2N3906. Other future builders should benefit from the answers of our flanger gurus here.


Just1More

Re: 9V Electric Mistress retrofit with MN3007
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2010, 07:51:33 PM »
OK, got mine built.  We have flange!!

Some questions though:

1. The alignment procedure info talks about a gain trim and a balance adjust trim.  This build doesn't appear to have these.  I take it you just skip these steps...?

I'm just using a free signal generator app for the iPhone which is far from ideal and still trying to work out how to drive the o-scope I have borrowed which isn't making things any easier.

2. I've notice an obvious volume drop when the effect is engaged.  I was under the impression from the notes on the schematic that some changes had been made to the original circuit to address this issue.  Just wondering if others had this issue or it is just a side effect of not having the trimmers correctly calibrated yet.

Thanks

John