Author Topic: The Worlsd smallest flangers....  (Read 70709 times)

Mark Hammer

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2010, 09:06:25 AM »
Actually, what I meant was not surface mount, but those chips that are 8 (and sometimes 9) pins in a row, like the AN6551 and such.  Armed with vertically mounted resistors, these can facilitate VERY compact layouts.

DougH

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2010, 11:11:50 AM »
That's really nice work! Congratulations! :icon_wink:
"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."

StereoKills

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2010, 12:14:00 PM »
Actually, what I meant was not surface mount, but those chips that are 8 (and sometimes 9) pins in a row, like the AN6551 and such.  Armed with vertically mounted resistors, these can facilitate VERY compact layouts.
SIP (Single In-line Package) IC's are cool. They offer a ton of flexibility.
"Sometimes it takes a thousand notes to make one sound"

oldschoolanalog

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2010, 12:27:00 PM »
SIP (Single In-line Package) IC's are cool. They offer a ton of flexibility.
And are readily available in a nice array of flavours!
http://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Amplifier-ICs/Op-Amps/_/N-4h00g?P=1z0yz09Z1z0yhi4&Keyword=op+amp&FS=True

@solderman: You made no mention of the BBD you were going to base the A/DA on. Perhaps you might consider doing a (regulated)9V version using the readily available V3207 (or BL/MN). This is something that's long overdue.
Please!  ;D
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 12:37:22 PM by oldschoolanalog »
Mystery lounge. No tables, chairs or waiters here. In fact, we're all quite alone.

12Bass

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2010, 12:51:26 PM »
Perhaps you might consider doing a (regulated)9V version using the readily available V3207 (or BL/MN).

If using a quality 9 V adapter, is a regulator even needed win MN/V/BL3207?  AFAIK, the chips can take up to 10 V.  I thought that the regulator was used in previous versions because they used an 18 V supply.  Could reduce the parts count that way....

BTW, I have some MN3007s on their way for further experimentation.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

oldschoolanalog

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2010, 01:02:57 PM »
Let me rephrase.
Would you consider doing a 9V non battery powered version? XX3207 based.
 ;)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 01:04:29 PM by oldschoolanalog »
Mystery lounge. No tables, chairs or waiters here. In fact, we're all quite alone.

quarara

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2010, 02:47:21 PM »
Let me rephrase.
Would you consider doing a 9V non battery powered version? XX3207 based.
 ;)

+1 on that!
I made myself an A/DA Flanger on veroboard and it's incredible. A 9V version with MN3207 would be fantastic for my pedalboard since gigging with a 18psu just for one pedal it's a bummer. Anyway MN32XX chip can sound really good. I did an AD3208 analog delay with two MN3205 and it's fantastic.

moosapotamus

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2010, 04:19:19 PM »
solderman - awesome layouts! nice work! a 9v ADA would be great! 8)

~ Charlie
moosapotamus.net
"I tend to like anything that I think sounds good."

solderman

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2010, 03:19:56 AM »
Actually, what I meant was not surface mount, but those chips that are 8 (and sometimes 9) pins in a row, like the AN6551 and such.  Armed with vertically mounted resistors, these can facilitate VERY compact layouts.

Ahh
Now I see what you mean. I have't hought about those cause there a bit hard to sorce.

Which gives me an Ide :icon_idea:
Why not bend the legs of a normal DIL package in the way that it stands on the side instead. You only have to extend the legs of one side with left overs from cut resistors etc. This will make a DIL 14 to only use a footprint of 7X2. And they will not take more in height than a normal 100nF WIMA  Box film cap.
Thanks a bunch for the tip Mark. This really got me going :icon_twisted:

ADA in A 1590A naa that is a bit over the top ;)
The only bad sounding stomp box is an unbuilt stomp box. ;-)
//Take Care and build with passion

www.soldersound.com
xSolderman@soldersound.com (exlude x to mail)

solderman

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2010, 03:50:04 AM »
SIP (Single In-line Package) IC's are cool. They offer a ton of flexibility.
And are readily available in a nice array of flavours!
http://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Amplifier-ICs/Op-Amps/_/N-4h00g?P=1z0yz09Z1z0yhi4&Keyword=op+amp&FS=True

@solderman: You made no mention of the BBD you were going to base the A/DA on. Perhaps you might consider doing a (regulated)9V version using the readily available V3207 (or BL/MN). This is something that's long overdue.
Please!  ;D

Hi I actually have had that thought. The MN3007 is pricy and the 3207 is not. About 18V (15V really) or 9V. As I have understood it the 15V is to accommodate better headroom and omit distortion. Both the 3207 and 3007 runs on 9V. There is one of each in the BIG Wave and the SubWave. And they both are powered by 9V.

The thing is that the 3207 and 3007 are not interchangeable as you all already know. In the normal case the 3207 is clocked by a 3102 and that will not do if the ADA sound is wanted. You would need LFO with a high speed buffered clock pulse like the ADA or the Ultra flanger.

The Sapphire Flanger uses this setup with a 3207. I havent heard it but its seams OK by critics.
http://www.morleypedals.com/sfbes.pdf

As I have divided the PCB in to two sections, one LFO and one Audio. Without having thought it over you might be able to have one 9V AUDIO PCB for the 3207 and one 15V (18V) or 9V for the 3007 and use the same LFO board. In my layout I have separated the Vref as two OP-amps, one for each PCB, to isolate from ticking and ease of whining. I think the LFO side can work on both 9V and 15V.
I Have to think this over. Right now Im on a train on my way to a customer (not stompboxes)
 Any thought from anyone else??


Edit:
As i recall i have a memory of seeing moosapotamus having an ADA with a  3207 :-\
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 03:53:19 AM by solderman »
The only bad sounding stomp box is an unbuilt stomp box. ;-)
//Take Care and build with passion

www.soldersound.com
xSolderman@soldersound.com (exlude x to mail)

oldschoolanalog

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2010, 08:48:23 AM »
I don't think headroom will really be much of an issue as most folks are going to use this w/guitar.
There is no need to have different PCB's for 30XX & 32XX BBD's. The change can be done w/2 jumpers as Charlie did in the last A/DA board. Another good example of this is madbean's Aqua Boy (@FSB) where he also gives the option of 3205 or 3005 by changing 2 jumpers.
I tried the A/DA w/an MN3207 (retrofit board) and it sounded great. A few C & R values (VCO) will need to be adjusted. I didn't take the experimenting any further because I was not in the mood to take apart my fully functional SAD1024 A/DA clone.
The preliminary results of that test:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=72682.msg589002#msg589002
Replies 24 & 28. I have since acquired a 'scope. This has helped alot w/R&D. It's also helped with answering my own questions.
Oh, check this out. Might be of some interest...
http://cimarrontechnology.com/so8dip8tosiladapterpn060301.aspx
Thanks!
Mystery lounge. No tables, chairs or waiters here. In fact, we're all quite alone.

DiscoFreq

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2010, 09:17:23 AM »
very nice work!!!
EffectsDatabase: http://www.effectsdatabase.com
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Mark Hammer

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2010, 11:20:16 AM »
Actually, what I meant was not surface mount, but those chips that are 8 (and sometimes 9) pins in a row, like the AN6551 and such.  Armed with vertically mounted resistors, these can facilitate VERY compact layouts.

Ahh
Now I see what you mean. I have't hought about those cause there a bit hard to sorce.

Which gives me an Ide :icon_idea:
Why not bend the legs of a normal DIL package in the way that it stands on the side instead. You only have to extend the legs of one side with left overs from cut resistors etc. This will make a DIL 14 to only use a footprint of 7X2. And they will not take more in height than a normal 100nF WIMA  Box film cap.
Thanks a bunch for the tip Mark. This really got me going :icon_twisted:

ADA in A 1590A naa that is a bit over the top ;)
They aren't all that hard to source.  I have "experimented" with bending the legs of DIP chips and they are easily fractured.  Besides, SIP packages allow you to have the components on one side of the chip or the other.  That's a big part of what makes SIP-based layouts so compact - you don't have to run traces all over the place just because everything has to be on this side of the chip.

I suppose you are correct in that a SIP-ified 14-pin quad op-amp will take less space than when it is laid flat.  But still, keep in mind that when a pin breaks, it usually breaks at the epoxy body - a place where you can not save the chip by soldering on a resistor lead as "prosthetic limb".  So, if you are going to do it, be VERY careful, and bending slowly....once.

Fuzz Aldryn

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2010, 11:31:00 AM »
Hej Solderman,

a littel off topic: What jacks do you use for your a enclosure works? Open ones or closed ones? I'm asking you because right at the moment I'm etching a pcb for the MN3207 powered Flanger, as I have still a unused pair MN3207 and MN3102 which I found in an old karaoke machine long time ago.:)
Tack s mycket!

Regards
Helge

solderman

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2010, 12:45:25 PM »
Hej Solderman,

a littel off topic: What jacks do you use for your a enclosure works? Open ones or closed ones? I'm asking you because right at the moment I'm etching a pcb for the MN3207 powered Flanger, as I have still a unused pair MN3207 and MN3102 which I found in an old karaoke machine long time ago.:)
Tack s mycket!

Regards
Helge

For those two I have used standard switchcraft mono. Mr Dremmel has persuaded them to fit as I want them to. But I wish that I would find same thing smaller .
The only bad sounding stomp box is an unbuilt stomp box. ;-)
//Take Care and build with passion

www.soldersound.com
xSolderman@soldersound.com (exlude x to mail)

Fuzz Aldryn

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2010, 01:06:45 PM »
Hi,

thank you so far. At the moment, the smallest ones I have are these: http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p666_6-3mm-Klinkenbuchse-Stereo-mit-Schalter.html
Don't like them 'cause they are not holding very tight. Ok, I will see with what I will end up.

Regards
Helge

solderman

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2010, 06:18:17 PM »
Hi
OK after having studied moosapotamus PCB for both the 3007 and the 3207 and read links that oldschoolanalog pointed me to have made a decision. Based on what Ive read it seams that 9V will be a sufficient power source for guitar use. But then again, some one might want to have 15V anyway. So flexibility is the key word here. so heres what Im gone do
I am gone divide the circuit in to tree different boards;
  • One for the LFO part with the pots on it, the one Iv already made.
  • One for the Audi part and accommodate for both the 3007 and the 3207 by having DIP switches both for the IC and the resistors.
  • One small power supply board with a PCB mount jack for those who wants 15V. Its gone have the option to use 9V and MAX1044/LT1054 charge pump or plain 18V.
    The Jacks will be on the front side. The PSU board will fit between the jacks.   


One thing that puzzles me is that on all the schematics I have looked at the 3007 and 3207 are pin compatible except the ground and the +V (#1 & 5) but on the datasheet they are fully compatible. Can some one spread some light over this matter??



The only bad sounding stomp box is an unbuilt stomp box. ;-)
//Take Care and build with passion

www.soldersound.com
xSolderman@soldersound.com (exlude x to mail)

oldschoolanalog

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2010, 06:52:11 PM »
Pin 5 is Vdd not V+.
Vdd of the 30XX BBD's is negative (V-) relative to Ground.
Vdd of the 32XX BBD's is positive (V+) relative to Ground.
IMHO, just use jumpers for the BBD connections and have the builder install those 2 R's (for Vgg) according to which BBD they want to use (3007 vs. 3207). Not using DIP switches saves on space, component count & cost. I guess the pads for the switches could be jumpered if wanted.
Check out reply 80:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=72329.80
 :icon_cool:
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 06:56:44 PM by oldschoolanalog »
Mystery lounge. No tables, chairs or waiters here. In fact, we're all quite alone.

peterv999

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2010, 04:28:43 AM »
Solderman,

Congrats with your mini flangers presented at the DIYstompbox forum!! Very
impressive stuff!!

Assuming you're so kind to accept some questions I have 2 questions:

1. The modulation frequency, to control the PLL's VCO, would that also cover
about 20Herz ?

2. What would be the ratio between your oscillator and the "biased" setting. would this allow for a 4% modulation?

Myself I'm presenty building a classic delay based on BBD's (
www.echotapper.nl under DIY). The Wow&Flutter I've designed is nicely
isolated but the LED/LDR optical isolator is possible not working sufficiant
at 20Hz (the waveform I use is a set of a combination of waves with 20Hz as the ceiling )
your design seems to be not only a better sollution but also a more cost effective
one!!


Kind Regards,

Piet

quarara

Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2010, 04:55:19 AM »
solderman, you're my hero!