Author Topic: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  (Read 328316 times)

MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #240 on: November 22, 2010, 04:10:59 PM »
The LED facing the LDR is a regular 5mm red LED from radio shack. The rate/indicator LED is a blue LED, likely a superbright though i'm not sure exactly.

I've also tried a regular yellow LED as the rate/indicator along with the red for the LDR and it didn't make a difference. To make sure it wasn't my rate LED I tried removing the rate LED completely and I still get the clicking/popping noise. I haven't tried any other LED's in the place of the red one facing the LDR but before it was boxed up I accidently burned out the red one and aimed the blue one at the LDR for kicks and it worked the same as the red.

I have a half-built EA Tremolo board thats been sitting in my toolbox for 2 years, I may just give up on this and finish the EA board... Since i've already drilled the enclosure for this project...  :-\

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #241 on: November 22, 2010, 05:03:14 PM »
@josh. shame to see your not getting good results with this...i just dont know why you wouldnt.......other people seem to be ok with it..

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MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #242 on: November 22, 2010, 05:08:09 PM »
I'm really pretty bummed about it. The idea behind the circuit is really quite brilliant. If I could stop it from popping then I wouldn't even consider the EA, but since I have the jacks, switch, drilled out enclosure, etc. already from this project I might as well.

Perrow

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #243 on: November 22, 2010, 05:30:13 PM »
I'm really pretty bummed about it. The idea behind the circuit is really quite brilliant. If I could stop it from popping then I wouldn't even consider the EA, but since I have the jacks, switch, drilled out enclosure, etc. already from this project I might as well.

Not sure if you've already said so, but have you tried different ldr's? I guess you could sub the ldr with a piece of wire or a resistor, just to see what happens.
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MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #244 on: November 22, 2010, 05:49:20 PM »

Not sure if you've already said so, but have you tried different ldr's? I guess you could sub the ldr with a piece of wire or a resistor, just to see what happens.

I just tried removing the LDR completely and i'm getting the same tick. So I guess it must be the 555 rather than a pop from the signal cutting in and out.

Just looked at my EA trem board and i'm only missing 4 or 5 caps for the board to be fully populated. Probably going to go that route unless someone else has another idea for my ticking...

Would certainly like to stick with this one though, being that its already built and housed... Easier to take this apart and put back together than to rework the box for another circuit, although the EA only has 1 board and no LED/LDR combo to contend with.

Manny

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #245 on: November 23, 2010, 04:30:31 AM »
Josh, just a thought. Not sure if you've mentioned already but are you using a DC jack on this one?
If it has a metal sleeve then your signal will be connected to 0V when in the box which would make it tick.

Edit: Also, are you using the LDR inline or bleed to ground?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 04:38:59 AM by Manny »

MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #246 on: November 23, 2010, 12:12:13 PM »
I'm not using a DC jack, just a 9v battery with snap.

I'm using the LDR the way its posted in this drawing... With the depth pot there too.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem2.jpg

I think thats bleed to ground, if I remember correctly.

I'm not sure that the depth pot is really doing anything for me as I can't really hear a difference when it is full on or full off. I haven't tried with the LDR in-line...

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #247 on: November 23, 2010, 12:26:24 PM »
I'm not using a DC jack, just a 9v battery with snap.

I'm using the LDR the way its posted in this drawing... With the depth pot there too.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem2.jpg

I think thats bleed to ground, if I remember correctly.

I'm not sure that the depth pot is really doing anything for me as I can't really hear a difference when it is full on or full off. I haven't tried with the LDR in-line...

hi josh, i didnt bother with the depth in the end..i prefer it without it.

have you tried it like this.

with your in going to one leg of the ldr..
and the out to the other leg of the ldr.....
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MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #248 on: November 23, 2010, 10:49:03 PM »
I just tried it with the LDR in-line with the input/output. It sounds much cleaner and the ticking isn't as apparent at high speeds, but its still right there in your face.  I also sorted out my depth pot by moving it in-line with the LED, so at least that works properly now... I shortened the input/output leads hoping it would help but alas, it ticks on.

So now the signal ground comes in the input and goes right out the output, so there's no way its connected to the power ground.

I'm out of ideas here... again. At least I have a bit of time to think on it - Now I have to rework my switching setup to switch the LDR in/out of my signal path, as well as my 0v from the battery for on/off. You don't suppose that my tick has something to do with me switching the negative battery lead directly do you?

clydeshere

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #249 on: November 24, 2010, 09:59:10 AM »
Hey guys just thought I would add this.
When I built this I was getting a tick with battery and with my power supply then I got a Voodoo labs and the ticking completely went away. So just so you know I think the power supply has something to do with it.

MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #250 on: November 24, 2010, 11:48:38 AM »
I suppose its possible but I don't see how. I've only ever used a 9v battery and batteries are supposed to be the cleanest source you can get, right?

Manny

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #251 on: November 24, 2010, 12:23:51 PM »
I suppose its possible but I don't see how. I've only ever used a 9v battery and batteries are supposed to be the cleanest source you can get, right?

Yep, a regulated power supply certainly won't fix your issue.
I've done more fiddling around on mine, when I have the LDR pulling to ground mine ticks too, but inline (the way you now have it) I get no tick whatsoever.
Does the negative lead of your battery snap go straight back onto the board? Not to the enclosure/socket ring?

Manny  :)

MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #252 on: November 24, 2010, 01:15:03 PM »
The negative of the battery snap goes to the footswitch and then to the board. The signal ground goes straight from input to output with no other wires attached...

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #253 on: November 24, 2010, 01:24:22 PM »
@metal why is your battery ground not on the pcb first?...hmmm...

edit: updated the fader to have fading rate too..

and changed a few values...

been tinkering again...for all you guys that like a triangle wave instead...less choppy etc..
heres a dimming led circuit...works on superbrights only ok...but dims really well...
and using a standard 555...
you can still have rate led but put a 470r on it ..

2n3904....npn...

here ya go, havent had time to attach the ldr yet and try it...just thought id post this now..

« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 02:51:17 PM by deadastronaut »
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MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #254 on: November 24, 2010, 02:58:49 PM »
I have the negative battery lead going to the footswitch first for bypass. Since I had the in/out tied together for the LDR bleed to ground, all I had to do is switch the 555 on or off for bypass. I admit that I haven't tried the circuit without the switch in it, but again, I don't see how it would make a difference.

I'm thinking it might be the way I have it laid out in the enclosure. The thing that has me vexed is that the signal section and the timer section aren't connected to each other at all. Its basically two different circuits - the 555 circuit  with both LEDs and the signal circuit with the LDR, connected only by the light coming out of the LED...

... And now for a gut shot...


Not the most beautiful thing in the world, but likely not the worst you've ever seen either. The PCB at the top, the LED and the LDR are hot-glued in, but not electrically connected to the enclosure. As you can see the input comes in and hits the LDR then goes straight to the output jack. (brown to the LDR then white from LDR to output jack) The signal ground goes straight from jack to jack. (green wire across the jacks) The pot on the right (from this view) is the speed pot and the depth is on the left. I added a couple small resistors (47r) in series with the pots to slow the maximum speed (so the LED will not go solid with the speed at '10') and so the red LED draws a bit less current, allowing me to use a blue LED for a rate/indicator.

I may just take it all out of the enclosure to see if I can get the ticking to stop by separating both circuits by a large area (think 6-8 inches or even a foot). Even so, if that stops the ticking, I can't put it in a reasonable sized enclosure with that much space in between them...  :(

deadastronaut

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #255 on: November 24, 2010, 03:30:23 PM »
@josh.
yeah its not the worst... :icon_wink:

1:you should scrap that paint off where your jacks are trying to make ground contact with the inside of the enclosure..
never paint inside the box...

2: put your ldr and led butted up tight together and wrap in heatshrink..(or some kind of black tube) so you can
work on it with the back cover off...light is the enemy...and you want as much light hitting the ldr ok.

i cant see the top of your pcb, did you build it as perrow's design?.and switching?
or did you just do it of the schematics?..and if so which one? what page?..this will help us know what your problem may be.
as it has been changed over the course of this thread..inevitably modded..etc...

i'll have a think.. rob.


btw that pcb is very close to the box too....is it touching anything.?

« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 03:33:10 PM by deadastronaut »
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MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #256 on: November 24, 2010, 04:12:09 PM »
I used a combination of the schematic and vero layout you posted on page 11 as well as the knowledge i've gained about the 555 over the past week or so i've been getting beat on by this thing.

It's a pretty simple circuit. From memory; 9v to pin 8, 470r from pin 7 to 8, 50k pot from pin 7 to 6, 22uf (47 in yours) from pin 6 to ground and a jumper from pin 2 to pin 6. Pin 1 to power ground, pin 3 to LED +'s and pins 4 and 5 open. 1k pot in series with the LED for depth, cathodes of the LED's to power ground and negative battery lead to power ground. LDR in series with input signal.

I didn't use any of Perrows switching options as I don't care about switching from inline to bleed. Either one is fine with me and at the moment inline seems to be a lot quieter so thats what i'll stay with. I originally had just the negative lead of the battery switched to bypass it (with in/out tied together before the LDR) and now that its in-line I was going to add switching for the signal path on the other poles of my dpdt; one position will be through the LDR (on) and the other position will go straight to the output jack (off).

I've pulled the PCB off the enclosure several times and re-glued it. It was also tested with it detached and it still ticked...
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 04:17:39 PM by MetalUpYerEye »

Barcode80

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #257 on: November 24, 2010, 05:02:11 PM »
I don't know if this circuit is more prone to this or not, but a lot of LFO circuits are sensitive to lead dress and wire length when it comes to ticking. While those flying leads all over the place won't normally matter in 90% of the circuits, LFO circuits are bitches.

Also, there could be crosstalk on your switch. General rule of thumb: never add the enclosure or switch until you have the circuit nailed down.

@deadastronaut: I rarely use batteries, but when I do I never solder the battery ground straight to the board. I solder it to the ring tip of a stereo input jack so that the battery is disengaged when the input cable is  unplugged.

However, given that this circuit is apparently REALLY sensitive to ground and current issues, i'm not sure how i'd handle a battery.

MetalUpYerEye

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #258 on: November 24, 2010, 08:10:14 PM »
@barcode - I was thinking the same thing, which is why I shortened my signal section leads as much as possible without getting to the point of being ridiculous. I also agree about the switch, although my input section has never been part of the switching in this project. I've always just switched the negative battery lead, so cross-talk in the switch is kind of out of the question too.

At this point I see one of two things possibly happening; either the signal section is picking up DC current when the LED's light up, or i've connected the signal and power grounds somehow that i've missed. Like I said; the two circuits are completely separate and I did test it before putting it in the enclosure and it still ticked so its highly unlikely that i've connected the two grounds through the enclosure.

soapamp

Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Reply #259 on: November 24, 2010, 08:26:53 PM »
Josh... refer to your picture of enclosure wiring, did you solve the ticking problem.