amazing what ya find on the internet archive.... uses a sad1024, but i bet it could be adapted... this was the stereo flanger zappa used,
that he claimed you could have flange "in either direction simultaneously for a real huge pillowy effect"...
standard caveats... schem probably has mistakes as many do, but hey, for coolness factor alone...









anyone dare clone such a beast? and if ya do, will ya burn me a board? 

Looks like the SAD1024 is being used in parallel. Not sure how much finagling it'll take to copy that section.

Saved all the info for a rainy day. I'm working on a GCB-95O right now, so the shorts are full.

The SAD's output pins 5 & 12 are going to the BBD output trimmer. (R119)
The SAD's other outputs 6 & 11 are tied somewhere else. (not to an output)

It looks like the SAD is set up for 512 stages.

This schematic is a pain to work through! Chopped in four pages....and instead of using power/ground connecting symbols, every connections is drawn as a line. My brain hurts!  

I'll have to look at this in more detail. I wonder how they achieve the simultaneous thang!  


I looked a little closer...This isn't a stereo flanger. It has two outputs, balanced and unbalanced.
I wonder if Zappa used two of these units to get that "pillowy" effect.

beats the hell out of me, i am but an egg!!!

supposedly in stereo they would flange in different directions...ahh...reading, you need TWO of 'em i guess..

here's the manual:

http://www.ka-electronics.com/DynaFlanger/Dynaflanger_Manual.pdf

this thing is HIP... read the description about using two of them beginning on page 13 of the manual. i can see why frank would have dug them.

http://www.zappa.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1743

http://www.afka.net/articles/1983-07_Guitar_Player.htm

"How do you get the doubling effect on your guitar?

I use a device called a Mic-Mix Dyna-flanger. There are actually two of them being used at the same time. You see, the Dyna-flanger has an envelope follower built into it. So if you set one of them up to go sharp when the envelope is hit hard, and the other one to go flat when the envelope is hit hard, then you're going to get this doubling effect wherever there's an actual pitch discrepancy in the notes, and it really sounds like two instruments playing the same thing."

Ahhhh! 

That makes more sense now.
I never thought of using two flangers in a stereo set up. I wonder if you could achieve a TZF effect when they cross. 

Where's Mark Hammer???

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-119009.html

Some interesting comments.

You know, I would have finished my as-yet-incomplete PAiA Hyperflange years ago had I not been distracted by the general topic of envelope control., and perusing how I would integrate it.  In the meantime, the Line 6 Liqui-Flange pedal incorporated envelope control, and merely whetter my appetite for building in ALL the possibilities.  Bleah; lost at the choice point. 

I had thought that Frank used the Wasatch Pro Flanger, and while the Wasatch unit has more bells and whistles than the usual of its day, it did not include on-board envelope-following and clearly it was NOT what Frank used.

Running two flangers "against" each other can provide some novel effects.  I don't have envelope control, but I lifted the dry signal from each of my pair of Boss BF-1s, so thatthe two wet signals could be run "against" each other to achieve TZF.  In this case, because the delay range can be adjusted with the Manual control, you can set it to achieve different amounts of time on "the other side of zero".

well, the important thing is, can we make this beast live? in stereo? with stuff we can still aquire?

cuz man, i'd go stereo again if i could get this kinda sound happening!!

dirk over at the pariah place said some info is missing from the edges of the schematics... it's so huge, i haven't checked..
so no idea if it's buildable as found.

Quote from: armdnrdy on September 25, 2013, 12:04:43 PM
The SAD's other outputs 6 & 11 are tied somewhere else. (not to an output)

Looks like outputs 6 & 11 are tied back to the +15V regulator. If I remember correctly, the SAD1024 datasheet specifies that any unused outputs are "supposed to be" tied to V+

greg, so that means you could use 1 512stage bbd correct? i wonder if it could be adapted to use something more common and easier to work with?
seems to me the envelope control part is the most interesting idea... but i am, again, but an egg!! 

Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on September 25, 2013, 02:01:06 PM
greg, so that means you could use 1 512stage bbd correct? i wonder if it could be adapted to use something more common and easier to work with?
seems to me the envelope control part is the most interesting idea... but i am, again, but an egg!! 

It is a possibility Jimi BUT....

Not to many easy-to-get 512 stage BBDs either. Better luck would be had to just convert to an MN3007 and double the clock (if it is capable)

Not quite as advanced as the MicMIx, but still quite a bit above your usual flanger is this little Beast-from-the-East:
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/OOP%20Japanese%20Electronics%20Book/multi-flanger.gif
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/OOP%20Japanese%20Electronics%20Book/multi-flanger-pcb.gif

In this particular case, the circuit uses a 256-stage MN3009.  While that can be pin-for-pin replaced with an MN3007, the MN3101 uses a 22pf clock cap.  I don't know that a) chopping that by 4 to bring the delay range of the 3007 down to what a 3009 would get is likely to be stable or accurate, and b) whether the needed clock rate is even feasible by the 3101.  So, unless you want a chorus with wads of modulation capabilities OR you have an MN3009 (or possibly MN3004), you're pretty much out of luck.

Or possibly a combination of that and a readable MXR Flanger Doubler!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/86xmhjp7l6n982m/Flanger%20Doubler%20600.gif

Wait a minute, I'm seeing fixed phase shift stages in the bottom picture, I'll have to put the pieces together but I think bits are missing.

Stephen,

In the Flanger Doubler I'm seeing a 22 pin CCD IC which I would be very interested in knowing what make and model it is!

I found a unclear gut shot on the net that looks like two Reticon ICs. SAD4096 and the 22 pin CCD.

Quote from: StephenGiles on September 26, 2013, 02:37:25 AM
Wait a minute, I'm seeing fixed phase shift stages in the bottom picture, I'll have to put the pieces together but I think bits are missing.

Interesting..... I can only determine four cascaded 12db/oct low-pass filters.

Quote from: analogguru on September 26, 2013, 03:21:57 AM

Quote from: StephenGiles on September 26, 2013, 02:37:25 AM
Wait a minute, I'm seeing fixed phase shift stages in the bottom picture, I'll have to put the pieces together but I think bits are missing.

Interesting..... I can only determine four cascaded 12db/oct low-pass filters.

I was looking on my Blackberry - rather small to these eyes!! Yes I can see now, thanks for pointing that out.

I found a higher resolution image of the Flanger doubler...Looks like a SAD1024 and a R5101. Talk about hen's teeth!

gonna be no hope of ressurrection for this beast, huh?

man... too bad some chinese manufacturers or something didn't bite the bullet and make a bunch of repro bbd's that work..

Quote from: armdnrdy on September 26, 2013, 10:48:36 AM
I found a higher resolution image of the Flanger doubler...Looks like a SAD1024 and a R5101. Talk about hen's teeth!

Is that the one you get if you google MXR Flanger Doubler with the hand written IC numbers?

Here is a very high resolution version of the Flanger Doubler - 12mb file
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4waiamy5s4ex2s9/MXR%20Flanger%20Doubler.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvok4jEH4hE

24:30

there is another dweez video , where he demos the actual units , i believe ... but that is a pretty good waste of 35 minutes on its own  .