Author Topic: No Clone Zone  (Read 10413 times)

TheBigMan

Re: No Clone Zone
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2005, 12:07:52 PM »
Hello all.  Going back to the original question I'm curious as to what is the 'no clone zone'?  I would guess it means no copying pedals currently in production or at least no posting schematics of them; but I'm guessing.

Brad

Mostly, at least round here, it's a courtesy thing.  ZVex is happy to discuss what's in his pedals for the most part, and he knows that there are schems etc floating around, but he requests that they not be posted here.  That is mostly respected.

Similarly the chap from Way Huge doesn't post his schematics, but is happy for people to discuss and/or reverse engineer them and post the schem, even to the point of assisting with identifying parts.

For me, I don't think there is a no-clone zone in terms of individuals building something for themselves, as Mark rightly says it's when these things are put into the public domain and then abused that problems occur.  I would say if in doubt about a schem and it's a forumite, then ask them if they mind it being posted.  Most of the big companies won't bother anyway, as a few clones for personal use aren't even a dent in their sales.  Case in point being Dunlop, they know they have no rights over the Microamp circuit, it was the use of their Trade Dress that caused an issue.  And that is a whole nother thread. :icon_lol:

tweaker

  • Guest
Re: No Clone Zone
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2005, 12:46:05 PM »
Thanks for clearing that up guys.  You know I see schematics posted all over the net but I never gave it much thought as to whether it was right or wrong or just fair game on pedals. 

Lets say I take a pedal currently in production, draw a schematic from the traces (all my own work) and post it along with my tips for modifying the pedal.  My mods would be ok to post but not the schematic, right?

Still, I like looking at schematics and trying to figure out how it works. 

Oh, what's a forumite?   :icon_redface:

Brad

PharaohAmps

Re: No Clone Zone
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2005, 01:04:38 PM »
Lets say I take a pedal currently in production, draw a schematic from the traces (all my own work) and post it along with my tips for modifying the pedal.  My mods would be ok to post but not the schematic, right?

I am not a lawyer.  (IANAL)

Just wanted to say that - but here's the scoop:

1.  Schematics themselves are not protected by copyright law.  The devices they represent may be patented, or contain elements protected by patent law however.

2.  A *DRAWING* of a schematic may be protected by copyright law, as a work of art (like a painting or a photograph.)

3.  A PCB layout may be similarly protected

4.  The "trade dress" and appearance of a pedal or device, including but not limited to physical design, graphics, fonts, and logos may be protected by copyright law.  In addition, the physical design of a device may be protected by a "design patent" (a special type of patent.)

So to answer your question:

If you draw a schematic, it can be protected by copyright law

If you make a PCB layout, it can be similarly protected

If you devise modifications to a pedal, the document detailing those mods may be protected.

All of these things are your creation and may be posted or distributed in any way you (the original author of those works) sees fit.  Only the original author or his / her designated agents may post them while they are under proection of copyright law.  If unauthorized persons distribute them or attempt to modify or plaigarize, you may have some legal recourse.

Whether you want to go to the trouble of *FILING* copyright paperwork, or obtaining trademarks or patents is up to you.  I am not a lawyer, but my wife's firm handles Intellectual Property law for a number of well-known corporations, and I would be happy to refer any "forumites" (people who use a forum) to a qualified attorney who can advise better.  This is just what they told ME when I started my business. :)

Matt Farrow
Pharaoh Amplifiers
http://www.pharaohamps.com

aron

Re: No Clone Zone
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2005, 05:52:37 PM »
>Lets say I take a pedal currently in production, draw a schematic from the traces (all my own work) and post it along with my tips for modifying the pedal.  My mods would be ok to post but not the schematic, right?

If you drew the whole thing, AFAIK it's fine to post it.

brad

  • Guest
Re: No Clone Zone
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2005, 11:10:25 PM »
I don't know why people are so hung up on the whole schematic thing.  If you draw a schematic, you can post it on a Times Square billboard if you want.  It's just that this site gives people like Zvex a break.  No big deal. 

phaeton

Re: No Clone Zone
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2005, 12:03:36 AM »
Once somebody is able to identify the circuit blocks that make up a pedal, they have reached an important step in the understanding of pedals and also can now start designing!


Well, almost...  I do an assortment of that- slicing up effects into chunks and pasting them all together.  Problem with that approach, is that if that's *all* you're doing, then chances are you might cobble something together that is good, but could be GREAT, only if you knew how to shift the frequency response a tad, or if you need to rebias a transistor or something.  Suppose you've got it hooked up and it all works, but your opamp overheats and shuts down every three minutes?

That's some of the "next" level stuff that IMHO truly makes you a designer.  Yeah, you can swap parts out, change the values of resistors and capacitors until you find what you're after, but it would be so much more L33T to fiddle with a calculator for a minute and know exactly what you'd need the first time.

I'm getting better at it.  My most current design doesn't resemble any current pedal schematics that i've seen.  It's mostly 'figured out' using mathmatics and National Semiconductor's "serving suggestions" in the datasheet(s).

Of course, since I can't breadboard anything right now, there's no telling if it actually works ;)
Stark Raving Mad Scientist

Lurco

Re: No Clone Zone
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2005, 08:45:57 AM »
I don't know why people are so hung up on the whole schematic thing.  If you draw a schematic, you can post it on a Times Square billboard if you want.  It's just that this site gives people like Zvex a break.  No big deal. 

yeah, go Brad go!

spreading that kind of attitude here will surely encourage more or less known originators
to increasingly come to this place more often for lending a helping hand.

Thank you so much!

puretube

Re: No Clone Zone
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2006, 01:50:45 AM »
I don't know why people are so hung up on the whole schematic thing.  If you draw a schematic, you can post it on a Times Square billboard if you want.  It's just that this site gives people like Zvex a break.  No big deal. 

yeah, go Brad go!

spreading that kind of attitude here will surely encourage more or less known originators
to increasingly come to this place more often for lending a helping hand.

Thank you so much!

`nuff said...